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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 10:52:28 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ross.Lang
I'm not really sure how a base works on the inside, and I haven't yet talked to my father about it to see, but how is it possible that a guy could single-handedly strike 40 people in a military instillation without being stopped first? For crying out loud, my wife's school has an officer with a gun on every floor.
-Ross
From what i understand he attacked at a deployment readiness center. The soldiers are waiting to deploy and are unarmed or at least without ammunition and there aren't generally guards in the room with them. He could cause alot of damage before he could be reached.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 10:55:34 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rljIt is a shame that he snapped but then human beings aren't meant to fight wars let alone have to fight them in never ending tours for 100 years.
I don't think the shooter was ever deployed was he?
< Message edited by _jjp_ -- 11/6/2009 11:01:51 AM >
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 10:57:32 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3869
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: rljIt is a shame that he snapped but then human beings aren't meant to fight wars let alone have to fight them in never ending tours for 100 years.
I don't think the shooter was ever deployed was he?
Not yet but he did have to work with those who had.
_____________________________
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:07:20 AM
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Rockwall
Posts: 534
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From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
It is a shame that this thread has fallen to a "bash Islam" thread. I find it ironic that those who are complaining about Islam are the very same ones who complained so loudly about the DHS report that warned that veterans may do things like this. Perhaps had the DHS ideas and suggestions been taken more seriously this could have been avoided? Now that I have dropped myself to your level I'll continue.
The actions of Nasan had NOTHING to do with the Department of Homeland Security's report on "Right Wing Extremists". That report had to do with veterans who returned from a deployment. Nasan WAS NEVER DEPLOYED. To refresh your memory:
quote:
It said "the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone-wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks." It cited Timothy McVeigh, who returned from military service and went on to bomb the federal building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, in 1995. LINK 1
quote:
It is a shame that he snapped but then human beings aren't meant to fight wars let alone have to fight them in never ending tours for 100 years. While this is depressing and sad I wonder how many more times we will see this over the next few years? While he didn't serve over in the theater yet he did have to deal firsthand with those who did.
Not sure where you come up with that, but if you look at the history of man in the last couple of thousands of years, it proves that we are fully capable of fighting wars/battles.
_____________________________
Sorrow looks back... Worry looks around... but, Faith looks up.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:07:36 AM
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ReadingSports
Posts: 158
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From: USA
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quote:
It is a shame that this thread has fallen to a "bash Islam" thread.
I'm not sure that this is "bashing Islam". Is it bashing Islam to have a rational and calm discussion of Islam, it's theology, and the actions of many of it's followers?
And he was shouting Allah Akbar as he was pulling the trigger.
It's also useful to discuss the run-away, blind, and useless political correctness that has gripped our society.
Political correctness that has extended even to our military, since they didn't toss this clown out for some of the things he did.
Political correctness that extends also to this forum, where some would say that criticising Islam is wrong. When Islam denies Christ, and many of it's followers do stuff like this. Maybe this guy was on the fringe and maybe he wasn't.
Why is it though that "Allah Akbar" is followed by someone dying.
_____________________________
Micah 6:8
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:11:57 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6396
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
It is a shame that this thread has fallen to a "bash Islam" thread.
Should Islam be praised?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:12:58 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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I didn't feel that the actions of either Jim Jones or David Koresh reflected on Christianity, they were both fruitcakes. Why should the religion of this mentally ill man be blamed for his actions - especially at this point?
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:15:58 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6396
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I didn't feel that the actions of either Jim Jones or David Koresh reflected on Christianity, they were both fruitcakes. Why should the religion of this mentally ill man be blamed for his actions - especially at this point?
Because his religion/belief system is inherently evil, like the personal beliefs of Jim Jones and or David Koresh were.... Are you arguing that what you believe in regards to Christ has no bearing on your actions?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:20:02 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1736
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quote:
It is a shame that this thread has fallen to a "bash Islam" thread.
You might want to move to another country if you are looking for citizens to defend a mass murderer who infiltrated their Military and killed innocent Military personnel.
It's not bashing- it's reality some of us support our Military and appreciate their sacrifices every day. We also have no kind words for a man who opens fire on them .
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:24:34 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 662
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Does anyone know if this guy was born state side?
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:24:53 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1845
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I didn't feel that the actions of either Jim Jones or David Koresh reflected on Christianity, they were both fruitcakes. Why should the religion of this mentally ill man be blamed for his actions - especially at this point?
One difference is that Hassan had made public complaints, often loudly, to officers that Obama should stop the wars against muslims. Hassan made this about his religion not those who are discussing that fact. Yes some here have made a mole hill into a mountain but the fact remains that Hassan's complaints were specifically regarding muslims so he is the one who brought religion into this.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:26:26 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I didn't feel that the actions of either Jim Jones or David Koresh reflected on Christianity, they were both fruitcakes. Why should the religion of this mentally ill man be blamed for his actions - especially at this point?
Because his religion/belief system is inherently evil, like the personal beliefs of Jim Jones and or David Koresh were.... Are you arguing that what you believe in regards to Christ has no bearing on your actions?
I studied Islam before 9/11 and I am aware of its agendas and distortions of Truth. Islam doesn't teach its members to kill people that simply irk you or happen to be nearby when you go off the deep end.
I do not judge the action of a single mass murderer without facts (truth), regardless of his religion.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:28:06 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3869
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quote:
Not sure where you come up with that, but if you look at the history of man in the last couple of thousands of years, it proves that we are fully capable of fighting wars/battles.
If you look at what happens to them when they come home and try to re-integrate you would probably understand what I'm saying. Not all but many. That was the previous job of this man to help them deal with the stress and mental problems of returning home.
You are correct on my misquoting of the DHS report it's been awhile. Then I never lost any sleep over it either nor felt the need to hide in a shelter from the Black Helicopters.
quote:
Should Islam be praised?
I honestly don't care one way or another. It's a false religion it is a wrong religion.
quote:
I'm not sure that this is "bashing Islam". Is it bashing Islam to have a rational and calm discussion of Islam, it's theology, and the actions of many of it's followers?
We've spent over 6 years in Iraq fighting for freedom for Muslims. We are closely allied with and have engaged in joint maneuvers with a nation consisting of a majority of muslims. We spent the last part of the previous decade and the first part of this one fighting and helping out a nation of Muslims in Europe. One of our most important allies in the middle east is a nation of Muslims. The supply routes for our forces fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq go through several nations with majority Muslim populations. The official name of the operation for the Afghanistan War is "Operation Enduring Freedom". While I agree that political correctness isn't a bad thing, how can we keep justifying the condemnation of a religion of a group of people who are integral to our own safety and freedom?
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:29:02 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I didn't feel that the actions of either Jim Jones or David Koresh reflected on Christianity, they were both fruitcakes. Why should the religion of this mentally ill man be blamed for his actions - especially at this point?
One difference is that Hassan had made public complaints, often loudly, to officers that Obama should stop the wars against muslims. Hassan made this about his religion not those who are discussing that fact. Yes some here have made a mole hill into a mountain but the fact remains that Hassan's complaints were specifically regarding muslims so he is the one who brought religion into this.
And what connection has been made between him and any radical Islamic group or is he a lone nutcase trying to use his religion to justify his actions?
And what of other non-Mulsim murders that claim God told them to do it, do their mention of God make Christianity culpable?
< Message edited by Eutychus -- 11/6/2009 11:35:38 AM >
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:29:27 AM
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Market42Fan
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First off, I want to join those extending condolences to the families of the deceased and injured.
Having said that, there are a couple of areas that don't add up to me. For instance, the thing about the whole "Iraq/Afghanistan" theory pitched by much of the media as well as Senator Hutchinson puzzles me for this reason. I'm not a military person by any stretch, but I would think that if you're a good soldier, you don't complain about where you're assigned to go. I would tend to guess that under normal circumstances that doing so would result in some sort of military discipline including potentially a court-martial if serious enough.
Which brings me to an even more disturbing part of the story. According to several stories (including a link to an article from a Seattle paper's site), federal authorities were tracking a series of posts Nidal Malik Hasan had made that, among other things, compared the suicide (read: homicide since they end up killing others in addition to themselves) bombers to our soldiers ([link=http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1152ap_us_fort_hood_shooting_suspect.html][/link]). Two questions were raised in my mind, and I realize some of this could be "Monday morning quarterbacking", but..:
1. Why wasn't there an investigation and more of a look into what Hasan was posting earlier?
2. Why does it seem like the media, even AFTER this came out, was verbally dancing around even the POSSIBILITY of the shooting being a terrorist act?
EDIT: Fixed link
< Message edited by Market42Fan -- 11/6/2009 11:35:37 AM >
_____________________________
I'm Bill Kurtis (pause), and I'm a bigger ham that William Shatner.
What I'd like to hear on his AT&T ads.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:30:06 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3869
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
It is a shame that this thread has fallen to a "bash Islam" thread.
You might want to move to another country if you are looking for citizens to defend a mass murderer who infiltrated their Military and killed innocent Military personnel.
It's not bashing- it's reality some of us support our Military and appreciate their sacrifices every day. We also have no kind words for a man who opens fire on them .
Bashing the person is one thing, bashing a billion plus people is quite another. I have in no way defended this man himself.
He disgusts me with his treatment of his oath as an officer. Nothing else really matters much to me.
We are winding down a fight for over 25 million Iraqi Muslims, should we have simply exterminated them? Seems a little wrong to condemn everyone in a religion when we've shed so much blood for people of that religion.
< Message edited by rlj -- 11/6/2009 11:36:39 AM >
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:33:23 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1845
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
And what connection has been made between him and any radical Islamic group or is he a lone nutcase trying to use his religion to justify his actions?
Other than his postings on radical islamic websites which had gotten the attention of the FBI you mean? Besides that i never said anything about radical islamic groups, I said that Hassan was the one who interjected his religion into the mix.
quote:
And what of other non-Mulsim murders that claim God told them to do it, do their mention of God make Christianity culpable?
In the eyes of others I could see where it would be reason for pause and even make the discussion of the killer's religious convictions a proper topic for discussion.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:41:44 AM
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Rockwall
Posts: 534
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
Rockwall posted that earlier, so it must be true.
....yea, it must be true.
That was tongue in cheek, obviously you didn't notice that me and cow451 were posting the same thing minutes from each other.
quote:
P.S. I wasn't aware we signed up for the Rockwall news service.
Are my posts on-topic? Have I posted anything that was not true yet? Some say let's wait till we get ALL of the facts first, but from MOST of the facts that we have already, this was a terroristic attack from a jihadist Muslim, unless you have something to refute that.
_____________________________
Sorrow looks back... Worry looks around... but, Faith looks up.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:57:51 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1736
Joined: 5/23/2006
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quote:
He cleaned out his apartment earlier?
Can't get much clearer than that on his intentions can you.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 11:59:10 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1067
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
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quote:
Along with the dead another great tragedy is this shooter was the one counseling our men and women who were suffering from PTSD and in critical need of professional assistance in coping with their own mental health issues.
The sense of betrayal is almost unfathomable.
Yes. And any sense of saftey they had while present in a US military installation has now been shattered.
A report on the radio this mornning indicated that 30 percent of scuicides (in the military) occur prior to a deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan and another 30 percent occur during post deployment.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 12:09:30 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1845
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
Along with the dead another great tragedy is this shooter was the one counseling our men and women who were suffering from PTSD and in critical need of professional assistance in coping with their own mental health issues.
The sense of betrayal is almost unfathomable.
Yes. And any sense of saftey they had while present in a US military installation has now been shattered.
A report on the radio this mornning indicated that 30 percent of scuicides (in the military) occur prior to a deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan and another 30 percent occur during post deployment.
so basically it's a wash? For a great many who deploy they will be over there for a year then back here 18 months to two years (yes some are more frequent). So essentially the numbers are very roughly one third in the deployment which makes up about one third of their time and two thirds happen where they spend the other two thirds of their time.
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RE: Shooting in Fort Hood - Texas - 11/6/2009 12:15:13 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1067
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
Along with the dead another great tragedy is this shooter was the one counseling our men and women who were suffering from PTSD and in critical need of professional assistance in coping with their own mental health issues.
The sense of betrayal is almost unfathomable.
Yes. And any sense of saftey they had while present in a US military installation has now been shattered.
A report on the radio this mornning indicated that 30 percent of scuicides (in the military) occur prior to a deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan and another 30 percent occur during post deployment.
so basically it's a wash? For a great many who deploy they will be over there for a year then back here 18 months to two years (yes some are more frequent). So essentially the numbers are very roughly one third in the deployment which makes up about one third of their time and two thirds happen where they spend the other two thirds of their time.
...the point being many soldiers do take their lives prior to entering the combat area. I would not have guessed that to be the case.
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