RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is divided?
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 10/31/2009 1:30:10 PM
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Digrieze
Posts: 99
Joined: 8/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
My dillemna is this: while I belileve that God hates homosexuality, I am not entirely comfortable with forcing my views on others.
I think the statement above is actually at the core of your dillemma. The issue is not same sex union/marriage or the implications around it, the question is who is God to you? In fact, your dillemma will apply to ANY decision you make.
If you believe God really doesn't believe what He said in the Bible, or really doesn't care anymore, or is just a wishy-washy entity that'll just say "who cares, it's all good, that bible thing was just a joke anyway" in the end, then vote YOUR way.
If you believe that God is like you in all ways (except you're more evolved, sopisticated, and smarter like some believe), then vote YOUR way.
If you believe that God is all knowing, all wise, and the creator of all things then your real problem is that you disagree with Him, and one day we'll all have to explain our decisions we made when we KNEW He disagreed and why we were so arrogant. If the God of the Bible is your God then vote HIS way.
The issue of mercy and restoration is another topic. The law in our society is the embodiment of best principles, the issue of mercy is left in the hands of the courts. That's why we separate the two brances of government.
I support with a ministry called KAIROS, which ministers God's grace to prisoners. Every one that comes through has a story about why they shouldn't be there and THE LAW was unjust. Most frightening are the pedophiles that (to them) are fully justified in what they did (in there minds), fully convinced that what they did was fully consensual and good to the children. My heart is torn apart at the broken lives in these prisons, but honestly I still believe that the crimes they committed (armed robbery, aggravated assault, rape, etc.) SHOULD still be illegal. We could empty many prison cells simply by making robbery OK as long as you're needy and destitute, but that is simply unjust, and the measure of justice I use for right and wrong is the Bible in voting on those crimes.
Again, the question is actually very simple, who knows more, God or you?
_____________________________
My hope, my wish, my prayer is that you find the life that Jesus created you to live and has hidden within Himself so in living that life you may have a uniquely intimate communion with Him. (Col.3:1-4)
Yours in the love of Jesus
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 10/31/2009 4:35:00 PM
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CMT8808
Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaptZ
LAMB-
You say you know some gay men? Are they friends or just casual acquaintances? What I mean is, do you like them? Do you care about them? In your eyes are they 'good' people?
If so, then TALK to them. Hear them out. Then you might be able to make your decision.
Personally, I think the tipping point for me was thinking what it would be like to NOT be able to marry my wife. How would I feel? How would I live? That and seeing how happy and committed my friends are who are in gay/lesbian realtionships and how much 'marriage' means to them.
How, really, could I keep that from them and still look myself in the mirror every day?
Kaptz~
I think you are way off here. Even heterosexual marriages struggle as it is and mixed marriages struggle even more.
Homosexual marriage is wrong simply because God says it is and not what they believe marriage to be.
I have a long time riend who is a homosexual and know a few from her community. They change partners more than "anyone" changes bed sheets.
Actually a good example of this is a gay couple in Providence RI, who professed their love for each other and said it would be happily ever after if they could wed. Well they did, they jumped the border and got married in Massachusetts, only for 3 months down the road hated each other and wanted a divorce.
The problem? R.I. doesn't recognize same sex marriages and Massachusetts will not divorce them because they do not live in that state.
Also you get into custody battles when they decide they want children, look at Rosie O'Donnell and her so called wife, who took the two youngest when she left.
Then you have the ones who do not want to make it legit, because they will lose benefits, yet while they cohabitate get special priviledges ( as can still be covered by health insurance, eventhough they are not married, do you get that priviledge because you live with a woman?)
because of their bedroom preferences.
So if the government is going to legalize same sex marriage against God's word #1 I do not have t accept it and #2 they need to change the double standard and make them all step up to the plate. Ie: If they live together they can not cover their signifigant other/partner. No priviledges because they think they are special.
CMT
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/4/2009 11:57:23 PM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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FYI I decided to vote against it, but it looks like it didn't make a difference anyway.
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/5/2009 8:29:52 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2241
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
FYI I decided to vote against it, but it looks like it didn't make a difference anyway.
Greetings
Mt 12:30 - Show Context
He who is not with Me is against Me,
and
he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.
Rev 22
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still;
he who is filthy, let him be filthy still;
he who is righteous, let him be righteous still;
he who is holy, let him be holy still."
12 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and "My reward" is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work.
quote:
but it looks like it didn't make a difference anyway.
The only difference it’s supposed to make... is in "your" own life ... see where it says here that My reward is with “Me” in like manner the reward is in "your" own life ... and that means one is not responsible if unbelievers to don’t hear the word
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still;
he who is filthy, let him be filthy still;
And in like manner
= he who is righteous let him be righteous still;
and He who is not with Me is against Me
.....12 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with “Me”,
According to the scriptures you should have receive a reward “in your own life” for doing the right thing because.... it is written in verse 12... that Jesus will give “to everyone” = according to “his” work.
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 11/5/2009 8:38:56 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/6/2009 11:33:23 AM
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KaptZ
Posts: 158
Joined: 10/28/2009
From: The swamps of Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CMT8808
Kaptz~
I think you are way off here. Even heterosexual marriages struggle as it is and mixed marriages struggle even more.
They say 50% of marriages end in divorce. Why do we bother? We bother because we think it is important. Because everyone's marriage that fails, fails on it's own, not because others fail. If we tie success rates to the 'right to marry' then none of us should be allowed to do it.
quote:
Homosexual marriage is wrong simply because God says it is and not what they believe marriage to be.
That's why it's so important that there is a seperation of church and state in this country. It keeps all of us from having the power to decide others personal lives according to OUR religious beliefs. It does seem to work most of the time.
quote:
I have a long time riend who is a homosexual and know a few from her community. They change partners more than "anyone" changes bed sheets.
And we know no heterosexuals who behave like that?!? I'm sure I know just as many gays/lesbians that have been together more than 20 years. Either way, the number of sexual partners a person has had(regardless of sexual orientation)should'nt be a criteria for their right to get married.
quote:
Actually a good example of this is a gay couple in Providence RI, who professed their love for each other and said it would be happily ever after if they could wed. Well they did, they jumped the border and got married in Massachusetts, only for 3 months down the road hated each other and wanted a divorce.
Ever heard of Britney Spears? Or Liz Taylor for that matter? Didn't hear anyone say they couldn't marry.
quote:
The problem? R.I. doesn't recognize same sex marriages and Massachusetts will not divorce them because they do not live in that state.
That's why it insanity that this is left to the states to decide. It's a Supreme Court issue. Either the whole country or none of it.
quote:
Also you get into custody battles when they decide they want children, look at Rosie O'Donnell and her so called wife, who took the two youngest when she left.
*sigh* Come on now! There are no custodial disputes in heterosexual divorces?
quote:
Then you have the ones who do not want to make it legit, because they will lose benefits, yet while they cohabitate get special priviledges ( as can still be covered by health insurance, eventhough they are not married, do you get that priviledge because you live with a woman?)
because of their bedroom preferences.
Actually, you are right about this. ANYONE should be allowed to have their loved ones(that they specify) covered by health insurance. This isn't so much a special priviledge of gays/lesbians as an injustice for the rest of us.
quote:
So if the government is going to legalize same sex marriage against God's word #1 I do not have t accept it
No you don't. Just like some don't accept that blacks can ride the bus with them and a hispanic might date their daughter or that a woman might become president some day. You don't have to accept any of those things, but that is not the same thing as having the right(outside your church) to stop them.
quote:
and #2 they need to change the double standard and make them all step up to the plate. Ie: If they live together they can not cover their signifigant other/partner. No priviledges because they think they are special.
You know, personally, I married my wife because I wanted to. That's it. I would have done it anyway even if there were no increase in benefits. It was important to us and that was all that mattered.
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/6/2009 3:27:00 PM
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cwb
Posts: 143
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: Eastern NC
Status: offline
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HWJV?
And of course, second question; WJV at all???
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/6/2009 3:46:54 PM
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CMT8808
Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaptZ
They say 50% of marriages end in divorce. Why do we bother? We bother because we think it is important. Because everyone's marriage that fails, fails on it's own, not because others fail. If we tie success rates to the 'right to marry' then none of us should be allowed to do it.quote:
Know we bother because it is a vow that we make before God, who also said in the beginning, it is not good for Man to be alone and He created for him a Woman.
quote:
That's why it's so important that there is a seperation of church and state in this country. It keeps all of us from having the power to decide others personal lives according to OUR religious beliefs. It does seem to work most of the time.
I think you need to review separation of Church and state.
quote:
And we know no heterosexuals who behave like that?!? I'm sure I know just as many gays/lesbians that have been together more than 20 years. Either way, the number of sexual partners a person has had(regardless of sexual orientation)should'nt be a criteria for their right to get married. quote:
Yes it should, our forefathers built this country to believe and follow God and His criteria for marriage is Man and Woman that crceate children.
quote:
Ever heard of Britney Spears? Or Liz Taylor for that matter? Didn't hear anyone say they couldn't marry.
Probably because they married Men!
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That's why it insanity that this is left to the states to decide. It's a Supreme Court issue. Either the whole country or none of it.
No the insanity is allowing it to be a decision in the first place
quote:
*sigh* Come on now! There are no custodial disputes in heterosexual divorces?
Yes there is cutody battles, but the children know they will have visitation with mommy and daddy and not well who is it this week Mommy #1 or Mommy #2!
quote:
No you don't. Just like some don't accept that blacks can ride the bus with them and a hispanic might date their daughter or that a woman might become president some day. You don't have to accept any of those things, but that is not the same thing as having the right(outside your church) to stop them.
Has nothing to do with Race, because you also have black homosexuals, hispanic homosexuals, white, red, green, blue, red, yellow, orange, etc...
I do have the right outside of my church being an American Citizen, I have the right to vote, speech, and all the other ammenties afforded to me etc..., but my number one obligation is to God First.
quote:
You know, personally, I married my wife because I wanted to. That's it. I would have done it anyway even if there were no increase in benefits. It was important to us and that was all that mattered.
Ditto, except in my case Husband 
CMT
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/6/2009 6:52:38 PM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
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After I made my decision, I came across this article, which really helped me to see this issue more clearly. Here is an excerpt (I removed some parts of this sectiion so it wouldn't be so long, but you can read the whole article here):
quote:
Why Christians Should Be Involved In Politics
Some Christians believe we should not be involved in law-making and politics. They believe we should stay out of politics and concentrate only on evangelism. After all, laws can’t change people, only a commitment to Christ can. I believe this thinking overlooks three very important facts which support Christian involvement in politics.
First, the evangelism-instead-of-politics plea presents a false dilemma....
... Second, since many people believe whatever is legal is moral and vice versa, the law is a great teacher. It helps teach people right from wrong. The Apostle Paul wrote “Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law” (Rom. 7:7) .
Third, the law actually does help implement changed attitudes and behaviors. Two major moral issues in our nation’s history prove the powerful effect of the law on attitudes and behaviors. The first issue is slavery. One-hundred-and-forty years ago, there was so much controversy over the question of slavery that many people thought it better to divide the nation and kill their own relatives rather than agree on a legislative solution. Today, outside of the tiny fraction of racist extremists in this country, everybody believes that slavery is morally wrong. Did attitudes change overnight because we outlawed slavery? No — behavior changed immediately because slave owners did not want to go to jail — but the law did help change pro-slavery attitudes over time. Legislating against slavery helped change attitudes over the long run because many people have always believed that whatever is illegal must also be immoral and vice versa. Before the Civil War, slave owners could rationalize the obvious immorality of slavery under the cover of “it is legal.” Afterwards, the law did not provide that convenient excuse, and attitudes slowly changed.
The second issue, abortion, also demonstrates the power of law to change attitudes and behaviors. For nearly the first 200 years of our nation’s history, abortion was outlawed in all cases unless the mother’s life was in danger. (In 1967, a few states such as New York began to include rape and incest as other legal exceptions, but abortion on demand remained illegal). So when the Supreme Court decided Roe v. Wade in 1973, they overturned 200 years of judicial and legislative precedent as well as the laws of every state — all 50 — which prohibited abortion. In effect, seven un-elected judges reversed the expressed will of the nation’s majority by judicial fiat. And when all 50 states have outlawed something, the prevailing attitude of the country is not hard to figure out — in 1973, the vast majority of Americans believed abortion was immoral.
But today, the country is about evenly split. What happened? Why has there been such a change in attitude about abortion since 1973? Simple: the law was changed. In a situation the reverse of slavery, what was once considered illegal (and thus, immoral) became sanctioned by the federal government. Couple the impact of the law change with the fact that abortion has since been deceptively promoted as a private “choice” that entails a “safe medical procedure” to “terminate a pregnancy,” and we can understand why more people now believe abortion is morally acceptable.
Not only has the law helped people believe differently, it has also helped them behave differently. Upon legalization of abortion by Roe, the number of abortions performed in this country exploded and soon reached approximately 16 times the pre-legalization level. The law obviously had an effect on behavior.
For these reasons Christians work to pass moral laws. If Christians do not get involved in politics, then the other side will continue to legislate the immorality that is bringing our country pain and suffering and even death. As Edmund Burke declared over 200 years ago,
“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/6/2009 7:02:38 PM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaptZ
That's why it's so important that there is a seperation of church and state in this country. It keeps all of us from having the power to decide others personal lives according to OUR religious beliefs. It does seem to work most of the time.
Separation of church and state is about protecting the right to practice one's religion, not about marginalizing one's beliefs to only their "private life" We have the right to vote in this democracy, and that means we are going to vote according to our beliefs, our world views. Everyone does.
quote:
No you don't. Just like some don't accept that blacks can ride the bus with them and a hispanic might date their daughter or that a woman might become president some day. You don't have to accept any of those things, but that is not the same thing as having the right(outside your church) to stop them.
I would not compare homosexuality with race or gender.
It is not wrong for a person to do whatever they can to preserve society as God intended it.
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/6/2009 8:16:49 PM
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KaptZ
Posts: 158
Joined: 10/28/2009
From: The swamps of Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
Separation of church and state is about protecting the right to practice one's religion, not about marginalizing one's beliefs to only their "private life" We have the right to vote in this democracy, and that means we are going to vote according to our beliefs, our world views. Everyone does.
Seperation of church and state forbids the gov't from mandating or supporting a particular faith. That's why having the Ten Commandments on gov't property is wrong. Not because the commandments are 'evil', but because they represent one particular faith. Enacting laws purely based on religious tenets of ANY faith would violate the seperation clause as well. This protects people of all faiths from laws that might be enacted by a majority of one faith. Important to remember since it may come to pass that someday Christianity might be a minority faith in this country.
None of this prevents people from practicing their faith or voting their conscience. It just allows us all to live together respectful of our religious differences. Person A doesn't have the right to tell Person B how to manage their personal life.
quote:
I would not compare homosexuality with race or gender.
That's your opinion. You're entitled to it. I just hope you can understand that many of us have come to believe otherwise.
quote:
It is not wrong for a person to do whatever they can to preserve society as God intended it.
I know you mean that in a good way, but honestly that sounds an awful lot like something you'd hear from the mullahs in Iran.
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/7/2009 1:11:01 AM
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mosess8
Posts: 66
Joined: 11/6/2009
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I try to vote for the people who I think will do the most good for the most people with the full knowlege that the one will destroy babies and the other will destroy the living.
Jesus would not support a so called liberal or a so called conservative because they both are destroying people. One through death before birth and the other through a slow oppression that kills spirit and soul then body through neglect.
All we can do is vote for the ones we believe will do the most good because both of them historically do more harm than good.
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/7/2009 1:23:01 AM
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KaptZ
Posts: 158
Joined: 10/28/2009
From: The swamps of Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
Know we bother because it is a vow that we make before God
Unless we take the vows before the justice of the peace. Remember, marriage can be a civil action without faith even entering into it.
quote:
I think you need to review separation of Church and state.
What, the part about the gov't making no laws establishing religion? The idea that much bloodshed has been avoided in our history becaues our gov't is not permitted to tell it's citizens whom to worship or even to worship at all? That all faiths must have equal freedom or none do? That the only way to preserve those freedoms is for gov't to not endorse ANY faith or the tenets of same?
quote:
our forefathers built this country to believe and follow God and His criteria for marriage is Man and Woman that crceate children.
The argument that the US was built as a 'Christian' nation and that the founders referred to "God" as the God of the Bible or as a generic 'supreme being' has been hotly debated in many arenas. If we are supposed to be a truly Christian nation then why is our Savior, Jesus Christ mentioned absolutely nowhere in any of the founding documents? Strange party to be left out if Christian theocracy was the founders' actual intent. If you intended to run a Christian nation then why the 'no establishment of religion' clause? Seems selfdefeating.
Besides, if we hold marriage, even between a man and a woman to your standard then what do we do with those married folks who cannot or chose not to have children? Shouldn't your definition remove their eligibility as well? Seriously, would it be possible that this path of narrowing marriage definitions ever end well?
quote:
No the insanity is allowing it to be a decision in the first place
There's that 'allowing' word. To be so certain that we know not only what path in this life is best for ourselves, but for others as well. That we have the authority and right to tell other adults who may or may not share our beliefs how to live their lives. I must say I salute you! That's moxie you don't see every day!
quote:
Yes there is cutody battles, but the children know they will have visitation with mommy and daddy and not well who is it this week Mommy #1 or Mommy #2!
Yes, I'm sure the kids of gay/lesbian relationships are sitting there in court complaining, "Why can't I just call you 'daddy' instead? It would be so much easier!"
quote:
Has nothing to do with Race, because you also have black homosexuals, hispanic homosexuals, white, red, green, blue, red, yellow, orange, etc...
Then you're in luck! You can discriminate against them all equally at the same time! OK, that was low.  I felt bad about it, for a second. I'm better now, thanks.
quote:
I do have the right outside of my church being an American Citizen, I have the right to vote, speech, and all the other ammenties afforded to me etc...,
True enough. But, honestly, why bother. So much energy to what good end? So we can say to God we have punished the 'sinners'? What have these people done to you that attracts so much displeasure? That they might live their lives in a way that you think is abohorrent? Their's is not your life. Not your marriage. Not perhaps even your religion. Certainly not your responsibility. None of the things you hold dear will be taken from you except perhaps your ability to deny others a right the rest of us take for granted.
quote:
You know, personally, I married my wife because I wanted to. That's it. It was important to us and that was all that mattered.
Ditto, except in my case Husband
CMT
That's the final mystery to me. To know the happiness of marrying the one you love, your soulmate, the one person who completes you as a human being and still after all that to want to deny that happiness to someone else.
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/7/2009 1:42:35 AM
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psalm19-7
Posts: 12
Joined: 11/7/2009
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Go to the Homosexuality Page on this website:
http://www.psalm19-7.com and read the section concerning church, bible, society and schools and ask yourself the easy question:
What would Jesus do?
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/8/2009 6:03:32 PM
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CMT8808
Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaptZ
Unless we take the vows before the justice of the peace. Remember, marriage can be a civil action without faith even entering into it.
This is where you are mistaken, even the JOP states that you are hereby married in the eyes of God.  My first marriage was by the JOP.
quote:
The argument that the US was built as a 'Christian' nation and that the founders referred to "God" as the God of the Bible or as a generic 'supreme being' has been hotly debated in many arenas. If we are supposed to be a truly Christian nation then why is our Savior, Jesus Christ mentioned absolutely nowhere in any of the founding documents? Strange party to be left out if Christian theocracy was the founders' actual intent. If you intended to run a Christian nation then why the 'no establishment of religion' clause?
It wasn't necessary to specifically state His name since they all knew Him, however in today's times God is just a title and not His name
quote:
Besides, if we hold marriage, even between a man and a woman to your standard then what do we do with those married folks who cannot or chose not to have children? Shouldn't your definition remove their eligibility as well? Seriously, would it be possible that this path of narrowing marriage definitions ever end well?
I never said anything about childless couples (man and wife) I, myself was told I could not have any, but the Lord blessed me with one at this time in my life and is my miracle child. I am 48 and he is 3.
quote:
There's that 'allowing' word. To be so certain that we know not only what path in this life is best for ourselves, but for others as well. That we have the authority and right to tell other adults who may or may not share our beliefs how to live their lives.
I never said someone or anyone has to live their life according to me. I am no one, but the Lord distinctly does not approve of same sex marriages. If He did, He would have made provisions for it in His words.
quote:
Then you're in luck! You can discriminate against them all equally at the same time! OK, that was low. I felt bad about it, for a second. I'm better now, thanks
See this is where you are wrong. You continually state that I discrimnate against them. I do not, I simply said I do not agree with same sex marriage and I have that right to disagree with it.
My friend who is homosexual also disagrees with same sex, but will dedicate her relationship between her and her S.O. I also have a stepson who is homosexual, so you honestly do not know me well to make such statements as you speculate without the truth.
quote:
True enough. But, honestly, why bother. So much energy to what good end? So we can say to God we have punished the 'sinners'? What have these people done to you that attracts so much displeasure? That they might live their lives in a way that you think is abohorrent? Their's is not your life. Not your marriage. Not perhaps even your religion. Certainly not your responsibility.
I would never punish a sinner as All are sinners. I never stated they did anything, other than they should not be able to marry one another. How can that sanctify a Holy God? Who in His word already says He disapproves.
quote:
That's the final mystery to me. To know the happiness of marrying the one you love, your soulmate, the one person who completes you as a human being and still after all that to want to deny that happiness to someone else.
You are mistaken and I thank you for painting such a colorful picture of me, someone you do not even know yet made tons of speculations and assumptions about.
Not to mention I as well as anyone else are entitled to our opinions and beliefs concerning how we decide to vote on such circumstances whether it be SSM or Abortion or Education, or any other cause that has been placed before us.
CMT
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formerly Delete 123
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RE: How to vote your conscience when your conscience is... - 11/9/2009 12:43:26 AM
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KaptZ
Posts: 158
Joined: 10/28/2009
From: The swamps of Jersey
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: CMT8808
This is where you are mistaken, even the JOP states that you are hereby married in the eyes of God.
Must vary state to state. Our's don't mention him.
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I never said anything about childless couples (man and wife) I, myself was told I could not have any, but the Lord blessed me with one at this time in my life and is my miracle child. I am 48 and he is 3.
I quote you="his criteria for marriage is man and woman that create children." So you see my point? If you were unable to have children(glad you were though!) that would be a criteria of God that you could ignore without a problem? Don't you think there is the possiblity that God might cut us all more slack than we allow others sometimes?
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I never said someone or anyone has to live their life according to me. I am no one, but the Lord distinctly does not approve of same sex marriages.
But it will be you voting not God. Besides you agree that there are many citizens of this country who do not hold themselves bound by God and the words of the Bible or even your interpretation of same? Would you like them to be able to vote on who you or I are allowed to marry? I wouldn't.
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You continually state that I discrimnate against them. I do not, I simply said I do not agree with same sex marriage and I have that right to disagree with it.
We all are allowed to have opinions about a multitude of things. Personally, I hate country music! Can't stand it! "My wife cheat'n on me! My dog died! and my truck won't start!" Enough to make you puke. That's an opinion.
Actually having the power to go up to someone and prevent them from purchasing or playing country music because it offends my sensitivities is another thing entirely.
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you honestly do not know me well to make such statements as you speculate without the truth.
Funny enough, after all your generalizations about homosexuals in this post that is almost exactly what my gay friend and his partner said of you when they read this thread. You're right of course. I don't know you. I can only go on what you write.
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I never stated they did anything, other than they should not be able to marry one another. How can that sanctify a Holy God? Who in His word already says He disapproves.
That would make perfect sense if everyone in question believed EXACTLY as you do. You seem to be saying that even if they don't, tough luck.
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That's the final mystery to me. To know the happiness of marrying the one you love, your soulmate, the one person who completes you as a human being and still after all that to want to deny that happiness to someone else.
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You are mistaken.....
So I've got it all wrong? All this time you actually are NOT in favor of outlawing same-sex marriage???? Not in favor of keeping couples you don't know from their apparent desire to marry eachother? Not in favor of preventing their happiness as they choose to find it? Wow. My apologies CMT!
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Not to mention I as well as anyone else are entitled to our opinions and beliefs concerning how we decide to vote on such circumstances whether it be SSM or Abortion or Education, or any other cause that has been placed before us.
CMT
Ok CMT. I'm letting this go. Just please try and remember these are real peoples' lives we're talking about when we 'vote' about such private matters.
When I was a teenager I once thought I knew better than a couple what was wrong with their relationship. I went to my father for advice. He looked me straight in the eye and said, "It's none of your *darned* business." In a culturally, religiously and a thousand other ways, diverse country like ours it's still sage advice.
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It makes me want to vote my conscience but also tell people I voted the other way, which is dishonest...
