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Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 12:55:34 AM
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didymus101
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Listening to many pastors on TV and from the pulpit, Christianity has seemed to become a form of being an American, "Christian" appears to have become an adjective for what type of American you are.
I see our faith being co-opted by the Bill of rights.
Many hold what I see as the mistaken belief this is a Christian nation. Yet if we are, indeed, a Cristian nation, one might find patriotism escusable. Is it?
What does it mean to be a patriot for a worldly or even a Christian nation.
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 1:03:06 AM
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LCannon
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Patriotism a sin? Nope
Nationalist? Probably
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circumstance but the opportunity to grow in his loss.'
'[Know]our God is able to deliver us from your furnace and
out of your hand, O king, let Him deliver us.'(Daniel 3:17)
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 1:59:41 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Many hold what I see as the mistaken belief this is a Christian nation.
A long time ago, America consisted of 12 Christian nations and one humanist republic. Then, we were suckered into making a new covenant with a new deity. The Mayflower Compact was made "In the name of God, Amen." The 1789 constitution was made in the name of "we, the people" -- which is to say, "we, the lawyers, bankers, and their cronies." This same constitution secularized our nation politically, by flipping off the God of the Bible, and making it illegal to pledge allegiance to any deity higher than the political order.
SO: politically speaking, we have not been a Christian order since 1789. However, politics is such a tiny portion of real life. In a healthy culture, society is shaped by faith, family, and free exchange of goods and services. Sick societies, societies in apostasy from God the King, demand strong human leaders. See I Sam. 8.
I like what a politician once said: "My country, right or wrong. Where right to keep it right. Where wrong to set it right." We can rejoice in the good, and give God thanks for it, even as we bemoan the wickedness, and take steps to supplant those elements of our culture that baldly defy our God.
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 2:06:42 AM
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tacitus
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I think far too many people have an inaccurate view of what being patriotic is all about, which tends to lead to undue criticism of those who choose not to express their patriotic feelings as publicly and proudly as others.
Patriotism does not equal jingoism, but many seem to overlook that fact.
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 2:24:31 AM
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didymus101
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"Patriotism: last refuge of the scoundrel."
Opinions are not meant to be limited to citizens of the United States, although our citizenship, given the odd opinion we are a Christian nation, does put a twist on the question.
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 2:36:46 AM
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didymus101
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We are not of the world. To whom or what do we owe total allegiance?
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 4:07:05 AM
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SonInMe1
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Its not a sin to be patriotic when a conservative is in the white house.
"Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts"
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 9:32:54 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
We are not of the world. To whom or what do we owe total allegiance?
I like the admonition Jeremiah gave the Babylonian exiles:
quote:
And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.
And let's not forget the advice Paul gave Timothy:
quote:
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
Finally, I recall about what Jesus said concerning those whose path through this life is so disconnected from it that they exert zero influence:
quote:
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
_____________________________
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Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 12:58:12 PM
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RJR_fan
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The flag pledge is a Unitarian prayer to the State. The words "under God" were only added by an act of congress decades after a socialist dude named Bellamy penned the original pledge. And the "God" is conveniently left undefined, ambiguous, and amorphus.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 6:41:34 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
According to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, "Patriotism" is defined as love for or devotion to one's country.
I don't see love for one's country, or devotion to it, as inherently sinful. Of course, this presupposes that one doesn't elevate this devotion to worship or idolatry.
What if what that country stands for is evil and against God's Word?
quote:
Jesus loved Jerusalem so much that He wept for it (Luke 19:41).
He loved God's chosen people.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 6:59:18 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Its not a sin to be patriotic when a conservative is in the white house.
It's so hard to read tone online. Are you being serious?
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/25/2009 8:20:47 PM
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stampinlady
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When it becomes an "idol" it is and to many America has become and idol in their lives.
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I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality .... Acts 10:34
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/26/2009 8:06:50 AM
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Consecrated2God
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No, it's not sinful to love and be loyal to our country.
quote:
Its not a sin to be patriotic when a conservative is in the white house.
I still love our country even though we have a liberal in the white house. If I didn't love our country, I wouldn't care who was President.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/26/2009 11:58:18 AM
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didymus101
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Patriot: "one who loves his country and zealously supports its authority and interests."
Every government is worldly but as Paul says it is an authority established by God. Because of that and the one rule, love of neighbor, we are to obey those laws that do not violate conscience. Yet we are not to love it or zealously support ITS intersts. As citizens of heaven, we support God's authority and interest.
"Do not love the owrld or anything worldly. For everything of the world...comes not from the father but from the world. 1jn2:15 The ways of the world are not worthy of us. Heb11:38 Do not conforn any longer to the patterns of the world. Rm12:2 Anyone who chooses to becomes a friend of the world is an enemy of God.
We are to love God and our neighbor, and it is only out of this love, not the love of country, that we act.
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/26/2009 1:12:12 PM
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didymus101
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We are ambassadors of God, not patriots of the state. Our zeal is to be undivided in support of the interest of His kingdom and not those of worldly kingdoms.
As His ambassadors, we have the rsponsibility to let our light shine in all affairs and that includes any participation in the workings of an earthly kingdom. We stand for Him and for Him alone.
America has enemies. These are not the enemies of a Christian; they are our neighbors. We are to love them. The story of the Good Samaritan makes it plain who are neighbors are and how we are to view them. We have one enemy, Satan, and he has no power over us. Truth has set us free to live wholly in sacrificial love.
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/26/2009 4:41:41 PM
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didymus101
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It is foolish to love our "enemies" especially the likes of jihadist terrorist but that is what the foolishness of God demands.
To love our "enemies" is not the opposite of praying for or supporting our troops. But our prayers are to be for the souls of the terrorists as well. Prayer is the most powerful weapon we have. To deny prayer to the "enemy" puts our troops at risk.
Hate is not the answer. Our loyalty is to the kingdom of heaven. There are no earthly borders to it.
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/29/2009 12:21:12 AM
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JustaChristian
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapist
We are ambassadors of God, not patriots of the state. Our zeal is to be undivided in support of the interest of His kingdom and not those of worldly kingdoms.
As His ambassadors, we have the rsponsibility to let our light shine in all affairs and that includes any participation in the workings of an earthly kingdom. We stand for Him and for Him alone.
America has enemies. These are not the enemies of a Christian; they are our neighbors. We are to love them. The story of the Good Samaritan makes it plain who are neighbors are and how we are to view them. We have one enemy, Satan, and he has no power over us. Truth has set us free to live wholly in sacrificial love.
Do we have a "thumbs up" smiley we can add? Because this deserves multiple thumbs up!  (found it!)
We should pay much more attention to which group Jesus detested. Not "evil people", not "worldly people/ sinners", no, not even the country's leaders, nor the church of the harlot and all her debauchery, but who did Jesus heap scorn on? Primarly a group of His own chosen people who misrepresented Him. We would be much wiser not to focus on the sins of sinners and the travails of government, and instead be sure that we really understand our own faith.
< Message edited by JustaChristian -- 10/29/2009 12:34:50 AM >
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Kindness, compassion, and humility, are all essential fruits of the Spirit, without constant application of which there is no Christianity, only a moral appearing immitation
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/29/2009 10:15:11 PM
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didymus101
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Thank you justachristian. I appreciate your comments.
I found I needed to say a bit more to truly emphasize the importance of this question.
It is a myth that America is a Christian Nation; it is vital to faith that we recognize this fact. All governments, without exception, are under Satan. So to love one's country and have zeal for its interest (the definition of patriotism) goes against the One Rule (love of neighbor), ignores our sole allegiance to the Kingdom of God, and supports the goals of evil.
God tolerates but does not approve of governments. This is exceedingly plain throughout the OT adn NT. Governments--all of them--are part of the fallen oppressed world system that has been done away with in Christ. Governements--all of them--are inherently corrupt.
However, it is inappropriate to rebel against them (as the Christian American Revolutionaries did), as is clear in Romans13. We are called to keep all of our focus on living out the kingdom of God. This kingdom is radically different than conventional wisdom and contrary to worldly values ( such as patriotism).
Government came into being in Israel as a result of their lack of trust in God as sole ruler (1Samuel8). They wanted "to be like other nations." God pleaded with them not to do so. They insisted and God relented.
("...they have rejected me from being king over them. Like all the deeds which they have done since the day I led them out of Egypt even to this day--in that have forsaken me and served other gods."
The kingdom of God is premised on people trusting God as their sole ruler.
So many people read look at the ways of Israel as God's ideal when in fact it was God reluctantly allowing what that stubborn people wanted and were given as a lesson on the insufficiency of their will and foresight.
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RE: Is patriotism a sin? - 10/30/2009 1:18:22 AM
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didymus101
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Those who are in Christ have their sole allegiance to him and do not love worldly things. If Christ is our only authority, there is no condemnation.
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