RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
View related threads:
(in this forum
| in all forums)
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
|
[Poll]
|
Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
|
| Yes |
|
| No |
|
| Maybe |
|
Total Votes : 53
|
(last vote on : 11/21/2009 11:36:40 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 2:16:15 AM
|
|
|
kelman
Posts: 5080
Status: offline
|
The conditional statements in Scripture usually denote no ability in man because they are spiritual commands that we have no power to fulfill. A command doesn't always imply ability. God commands us to do more than we're able to do, because He alone enables us to do what He commands.
We shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that just because ability concerning earthly matters is possible that the same applies to the spiritual realm. Think of it like the laws of one country don't necessarily apply in another country.
God commands us to love our enemies. Still, the command alone doesn't make us able to love our neighbor. Nor, simply because we are given the command is it reasonable to think we've been given any power to do it. We should understand that when God gives these commands they are not statements of what we can do but what we should do.
Do we see biblical evidence that even the most righteous did not sin? I can't think of any. God makes a point to show us the sins of those He has saved....Noah, Moses, Miriam, Aaron, Abraham, Samson, David, Solomon, Peter, etc.
When there is no evidence that something has been done, why believe that we are able to do what no one else has done?
_____________________________
beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 7:25:39 AM
|
|
|
Theo-Minor
Posts: 258
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
No offense, but asking about the accomplishment of others has no relevance to the topic. The scriptures still say what they say.
None taken and take none when I say you are wrong....
quote:
But what you want the "sinless after salvation" crowd to do is admit sinlessness, or name someone else as sinless when it's impossible for them to know if that person is or not. Your whole question and its motives are bait.
quote:
If they say they don't sin, you call them liars, and proud, and accuse them of sin (even though it's no one's place but God's to do such a thing).
You chart flyovers of black helicopters too?
quote:
If they say they do sin, you try to tear down what the scriptures themselves have to say on the subject because of the actions of an individual person. If they keep their silence, which is the wisest thing to do, whether they've sinned or not, then they are just avoiding your question in your opinion.
quote:
So leave off, would ya! Who sinned and when is no one's business but God's.
Really... The bible teaches that sin is simply something between a believer and God...
quote:
THIS conversation is about whether or not we can be obedient to God, and the scriptures say yes.
I have never said it's not possible... I would just like to see a reasonable example... Really not much to ask...
I'm not offended. But you need to provide proof that I'm mistaken. Opinions don't count.
The rest of what you said here has already been addressed.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 7:27:53 AM
|
|
|
Theo-Minor
Posts: 258
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: agapist
Of course its possible or Jesus could not have been sinless.
It is hard to believe that there are so many pages on this non-question. I am sure this has been mentioned (I saw absolutely no reason to read this thread) but its worth repeating--and opening your heart to: "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning." 1John3:6 End of story.
Amen! Indeed that ought to be the end of the story. A few months ago when I started Part 1 of this thread, I honestly expected just a few posts and that would be that...little did I know how unpopular it was to believe Christians can actually conquer sin!  ***gasp!!!***
lol
Wouldn't want to believe that Jesus was actually successful in destroying the works of the devil! He merely died so we could all keep living just as we were. After all, when the people asked Peter what they should do, the first words out of his mouth weren't "repent and be baptized," but, "say this prayer, and you're saved from now on, no matter what you do."
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 7:30:11 AM
|
|
|
tdd1975
Posts: 749
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
tdd,
quote:
He can not sin.
He can not miss the mark (said this twice)
He can not be imperfect
He can not have unrighteousness
Then you turn around and say that we can choose to "do our own thing" which would definitely be missing the mark. Which is it?
You must understand the difference between sinless perfection and perfected (glorified) sinlessness. The former is what this topic is about. The latter is not, and can only be attained in Glory.
In other words you don't have an answer.
quote:
I'm not choosing "which sins". Actually, it is you and your crowd who "chooses", because you attempt to separate and label certain sinful actions. I, otoh, look at sin as a single entity. I am free from SIN. Those who voted "no" are the ones attempting to differentiate between which sins are avoidable and which sins are inevitable. They must make such a differentiation for their POV to hold any merit whatsoever.
Paul makes it clear to me that I am free from all sin, and that if I choose to follow the leading by the Spirit, I will not sin (no matter how you define it), and that if I abide in Christ I can not sin (no matter how you define it). So why do YOU get to choose which sins are relevant, tdd?
In Christ,
ZG
I am not sure why you are charging me with this. I believe that all unrighteousness is sin whether it is driving over the speed limit or choosing not to walk in the Spirit.
You are the one who said you can't do the former but can do the latter. You are the one who made the distinction not me.
_____________________________
As long as we are something, God cannot be all.- Andrew Murray
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 7:31:12 AM
|
|
|
Theo-Minor
Posts: 258
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
The conditional statements in Scripture usually denote no ability in man because they are spiritual commands that we have no power to fulfill. A command doesn't always imply ability. God commands us to do more than we're able to do, because He alone enables us to do what He commands.
We shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that just because ability concerning earthly matters is possible that the same applies to the spiritual realm. Think of it like the laws of one country don't necessarily apply in another country.
God commands us to love our enemies. Still, the command alone doesn't make us able to love our neighbor. Nor, simply because we are given the command is it reasonable to think we've been given any power to do it. We should understand that when God gives these commands they are not statements of what we can do but what we should do.
Do we see biblical evidence that even the most righteous did not sin? I can't think of any. God makes a point to show us the sins of those He has saved....Noah, Moses, Miriam, Aaron, Abraham, Samson, David, Solomon, Peter, etc.
When there is no evidence that something has been done, why believe that we are able to do what no one else has done?
Wow bro. Is any of your personal doctrine based on scripture? All that stuff you just said is completely unbiblical.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 9:07:03 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 4311
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
Do we see biblical evidence that even the most righteous did not sin? I can't think of any. God makes a point to show us the sins of those He has saved....Noah, Moses, Miriam, Aaron, Abraham, Samson, David, Solomon, Peter, etc.
When there is no evidence that something has been done, why believe that we are able to do what no one else has done?
Wow bro. Is any of your personal doctrine based on scripture? All that stuff you just said is completely unbiblical.
You are refuting David sinned ?
You are denying Moses sinned ?
You are rejecting the proof Abraham sinned ?
The incredulity of our response to K-man is downright "sinful"...LOL
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 9:21:29 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 4311
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I'm not choosing "which sins". Actually, it is you and your crowd who "chooses", because you attempt to separate and label certain sinful actions. I, otoh, look at sin as a single entity. I am free from SIN. Those who voted "no" are the ones attempting to differentiate between which sins are avoidable and which sins are inevitable. They must make such a differentiation for their POV to hold any merit whatsoever.
Paul makes it clear to me that I am free from all sin, and that if I choose to follow the leading by the Spirit, I will not sin (no matter how you define it), and that if I abide in Christ I can not sin (no matter how you define it). So why do YOU get to choose which sins are relevant, tdd?
In Christ,
ZG
I am not sure why you are charging me with this. I believe that all unrighteousness is sin whether it is driving over the speed limit or choosing not to walk in the Spirit.
You are the one who said you can't do the former but can do the latter. You are the one who made the distinction not me.
I guess some choose what is sinful for them...
The disconnect here is we too are human-beings, like the "sinless".
We know the frailty of the flesh and the weakness of the carnal mind.
Some are hellbent on attempting to convince us they don't sin.
They want to convince us that that their ___ doesn't stink !
Well, it does stink and we know it stinks just like our stinkiness.
The sins of commission are easily dismissed; omission is ignored.
Omission, the failure to do right is conveniently ignored by some.
There is no good deed left undone, overlooked, or neglected ?
Please...
God is not amused by self-declarations of righteousness.
The mind led by the Spirit convicts the callous heart of sin.
If anything, the Spirit makes us aware of MORE sins, not less !
< Message edited by Mannamuncher -- 11/21/2009 9:34:44 AM >
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 9:43:58 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 4311
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
I don't recall ever mentioning that the Spirit leads one into sin...
So how on earth will you sin if you are being led by the Spirit?
Please explain yourself, you appear contradictory.
How do you sin and why if you are Spirit-led ?
You just told SIH that one does not sin if Spirit-led ?
So, how does one become UN-Spirit led ?
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 10:12:30 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 4311
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
THIS conversation is about whether or not we can be obedient to God, and the scriptures say yes.
For how long ? What happens when you disobey ?
So, if you perceive yourself to be more obedient,
what does that do for you or for God ? Be specific.
You are more obedient than another saved sinner ?
Yet, you still sin, but not as much as the other guy ?
Does God get any glory because you believe you sin less ?
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 10:19:08 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 4311
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I'm not choosing "which sins". Actually, it is you and your crowd who "chooses", because you attempt to separate and label certain sinful actions.
Actually many of us would like to see a concept of sin that haves even the smallest amount of substance from the sinless after salvaiton crowd. Since it seems it's the last thing you folks wish to talk about...
What the sin LESS crowd flaunts is their discernment.
They can discern if there is sin in a sinful situation.
The situation is sinful for others, but not for them.
What we actually have is man's determination of right & wrong.
Man himself, in his sinful condition decides what is sinful.
It will be comparable to when weed will be legalized.
Can I suddenly turn into a pothead ?
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 10:53:03 AM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 4627
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
quote:
You are refuting David sinned ?
You are denying Moses sinned ?
You are rejecting the proof Abraham sinned ?
The incredulity of our response to K-man is downright "sinful"...LOL
The trouble here my friend is subjectivity.
You as a man are deciding the rules of sin. You really do not see the hypocrisy of this position, do yoy MM. Are you refuting, denying and rejecting that God commands us not to sin? The trouble here is your subjectivity in misinterpreting plain Scripture. You as a man are deciding that God cannot do what He promises. The incredulity of those who respond that it's impossible for God to empower us to not sin is downright sinful (no quotation marks needed...)!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 10:56:39 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 4311
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SoulCrushed
quote:
Why isn't Christ sufficient enough for you to choose right every single moment of every single day, SC?
What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.-Romans 7:24-25
Amen, 2 natures locked until death in continuous battle.
This passage is similar your post of Romans 7.
Galatians 5:16-18 (King James Version)
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 11:09:14 AM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 4627
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Amen, 2 natures locked until death in continuous battle.
This passage is similar your post of Romans 7. Says who? As always you forget to read just a few verses down to Galatians 5:24. Which is similar to Romans 6 and 8 - two natures, one of which God can crucify right here and now for all who consecrate their hearts and live daily in His grace and power!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 11:35:40 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 4311
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
The below quoted post from Ps103 was on the first page of this thread and I wanted to bring it forward. I agree with this post as does every1needsgod and I beleive so do Drmark and most of the rest of us who believe you can stop sinning.
We all love and respect PS103, but...
What does God think sin is ?
The re-definition of sin by man is DANGEROUS !
IMVHO, I see evidence here of a bigger problem.
The diminishing of sin coincides with secular humanism.
Many in the church appear anxious to align with the world.
Some here are simply more sensitive to what sin is.
I am not accusing anyone of being callous, God judges.
Some appear to be cavalier and casual about sin.
The sinless pov lends itself to an augmented view of sin.
A tender, circumcised heart views the very least and
minutest deviation from God's perfection as sinful.
I do not say this rejoicing, rather with extreme sorrow.
We are sinners, we sin all the time and in every way.
Many seem to be making molehills out of the sin mountain.
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 3:06:50 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6396
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Feel free to start your own thread asking for a list of people that you demand. Your thread will have 0 new posts, but have at it.
Demands? Oh yes.. This is what you resort to when ask a question...
quote:
But this thread is about doctrine which is based on Scriptural absolutes.
Laughable...
quote:
It seems like you have a problem debating doctrine as you constantly resort to such weak and subjective demands that are impossible for any person, besides God Himself, to provide. But that is your prerogative.
Calling questions demands? Nice bit of obfuscation...
quote:
You continue to speak lies as I have not once wished to avoid sin.
You have avoided talking about what sin is..
quote:
Every mention of the fact that I can be sinless implies the mentioning and full-on attack against sin. Nice try through.
No it's not... You avoid what sin is by simply mouthing be led by the Spirit...Which of course is very subjective...
quote:
The only one defining sin to fit their agenda is you, SIH.
False...
quote:
Such categorization is completely un-Scriptural, my friend. Please provide me with a verse that says certain sins are avoidable and others are inevitable.
I never said certain sins are avoidable and others are inevitable....
quote:
So how on earth will you sin if you are being led by the Spirit?
You believe you know the will of the Father 24/7?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 3:07:55 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6396
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
SIH,
quote:
I have never said it's not possible...
Ok SIH, then what is your belief? Yes, no, or maybe?
I have never said it's not possible... I would just like to see a reasonable example... Really not much to ask...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 3:10:15 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6396
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
I'm not offended. But you need to provide proof that I'm mistaken. Opinions don't count.
That's all you or anyone has offered...
quote:
The rest of what you said here has already been addressed.
Of course, in your opinion...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/21/2009 3:42:21 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 6723
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
It is always sad to see man cling so doggedly to sin, that they try to jusfy it by claiming that Christ died so one can keep on sinning. Sad.
This simple verse says it very well about a Christian and sin;
(1Jn 2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Simply, the Apostle John writes this epistle so that Christians will know to keep from sin, but IF they do commit the rare occasional sin; then it can be forgiven by repentance, confession, and seeking God's forgiveness.
So sad, that those who wish to ignore Scriptue refuse to see the light of this Scripture, but to that Christ has already spoken;
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
It is heartbreaking that some still refuse the light of the truth because their deeds are evil, and they try to cover this by denying the truth.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
