RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 12:50:45 PM
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drmark
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Welcome to the Forums, insndreamer!
quote:
I have a question that's been bothering me. Why is it that some of you imply that anyone who holds the belief that it's not possible to stop sinning completely in this lifetime is trying to justify their sins, or is using it as an excuse to not try to be righteous? I think that assumption is extremely unfair. Although this is not a position that I hold, it seems obvious to me after participating over three years on these Theology discussions that many Christians appear unable to give up sinning and they frequently hold to this viewpoint that Christians must sin daily till they die. I'm really not sure why they believe this (faulty) doctrine, insn. It certainly takes a lot of pressure off when one thinks they have no control over sinning.
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I have willfull sin in my life, and I'm a Christian. I don't know how everyone else defines willfull sin, but to me it is anything that I do that I know I shouldn't, or anything that I don't do that I know I should. I'm in a huge struggle right now, and there are some days when I feel like a slave to sin. But in no way, shape, or form do I justify the things I do/don't do. I'm not refusing for God to "fix it". I'm begging on my knees through tears, telling Him I can't do anything on my own and I need Him to work a miracle in me. I'm in constant torment over my sins. Hmm, sounds just like Paul in Romans chapter 7. Aren't you glad he went on to chapter 8! Maybe you need to move on to Romans 8, insn.
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Now, I'm not blaming God one bit for my struggle. I realize that it is 100% my fault that I haven't overcome. But the truth is, I don't know how to overcome. I know the Bible says that we can't take credit for any good thing we do, so if all that is required of me is to allow God to work in me, I honestly don't know what else I'm supposed to do. Well, how were you saved, insn? I know for me it was by grace through faith. Could it be that God wants to crucify your sinful nature, by grace through faith? I know He has done that for me! PTL!
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But I do believe we can continually grow in Christ, and get as close to perfection as our flesh is capable of. Amen! Growth in grace towards Christlikeness is a wonderful goal for every Christian. But "perfection" in the biblical sense is a spiritual state, not a physical one. What our physical flesh is incapable of doing has nothing to do with spiritual perfection and loving God and others with all our being.
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Anyway, hope that wasn't veering too far off topic. I've been thinking about starting a thread on how to overcome sin but frankly, I'm afraid of getting attacked. I think this would be a fabulous subject for a thread, insn! But who would be "attacking" you? Those that do not believe we can overcome sin would not be posting on such a thread, would they?
quote:
Oh, and the idea that if someone dies shortly after repenting, and before they have a chance to sin, they are sinless for the rest of their lives? I guess that if you only have 5 minutes left in your life then maybe you could go without sinning. But I honestly thought the topic was about living a much longer liftetime without sin. I think this was in reference to one of my responses to MX. Perhaps you misunderstood me (or more likely, I didn't explain it very well). The point I was trying to make is why can't a person who can live 5 seconds without sin, live 5 minutes, or 5 days, or 5 decades? After all, it's all about the grace and power of God in our lives, isn't it?
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 1:47:04 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
I think this was in reference to one of my responses to MX. Perhaps you misunderstood me (or more likely, I didn't explain it very well). The point I was trying to make is why can't a person who can live 5 seconds without sin, live 5 minutes, or 5 days, or 5 decades? After all, it's all about the grace and power of God in our lives, isn't it?
The last thread on this matter should answer that question....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 2:17:37 PM
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insndreamer
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I didn't mean that I was afraid that if I started a thread about overcoming sin that people would be telling me it couldn't be done. What I meant was that I'm afraid of being criticized for not having enough faith. Whether or not that's true, I'm already discouraged so that might make me feel worse.
I guess I'm still trying to figure out how to live as Romans 8 describes. I'm not really sure what that looks like in action. I trust Jesus with all of my heart, that's how I know I'm saved. Isn't trusting in Him the way we live by the Spirit?
My brother recently fell away from his walk with God, and he use to believe that it was possible to reach a point where he would have no more conscious sin. He said that he believed with all of his heart that he would be able to stop sinning through the power of God, and when he failed time and time again, he lost faith. Now he just doesn't care about any of it anymore, even though he acknowledges that God exists. He definitely follows the logic that if something is unattainable than there's no point in trying for it. I'd rather try for second best and trust that my logic is nowhere near God's logic.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 3:05:55 PM
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drmark
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quote:
What I meant was that I'm afraid of being criticized for not having enough faith. Whether or not that's true, I'm already discouraged so that might make me feel worse. insn, are you afraid that God thinks you might not have enough faith? Isn't what God thinks more important than being criticized by people you don't even know? I'm reminded of the father of a demon-possessed boy when he told Jesus: "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!" Is overcoming your sin just as important as having that boy healed?
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I guess I'm still trying to figure out how to live as Romans 8 describes. I'm not really sure what that looks like in action. I trust Jesus with all of my heart, that's how I know I'm saved. Isn't trusting in Him the way we live by the Spirit? Of course, trust is essential to real faith. But so is obedience, insn. Why aren't you obeying Him with all of your heart? If you read a little further in Romans, you find that chapter 12 shows us exactly how to live for Christ according the the Spirit, not our sinful nature.
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My brother recently fell away from his walk with God, and he use to believe that it was possible to reach a point where he would have no more conscious sin. He said that he believed with all of his heart that he would be able to stop sinning through the power of God, and when he failed time and time again, he lost faith. Well, I don't know you or your brother, but I'm sorry to hear that he wasn't willing to use the power that God made available to him. Power is pretty much worthless if we don't put it to use! Also, I don't know what you mean by "no more conscious sin". In my experience, those Christians who know they can stop sinning by God's grace and power are even more keenly aware of their shortcomings and potential to disobey than those who think they must sin every day.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 3:42:06 PM
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insndreamer
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Of course what God thinks is more important. I don't need to post a thread to find out what He thinks. I don't care what strangers think of me, I just don't want to read discouraging words that will make me more upset with myself than I already am.
I know you meant no offense, but even you asking me why I'm not obeying God with all of my heart is hard for me to read. Why? Because I am trying to obey, and I really don't know how to use the power of God that is available to me. My brother claims that God didn't give him the strength and that's why he failed, but I at least know better than that.
So often I read that the answer to overcoming sin is to just obey. If I knew how to obey, I wouldn't have sin to begin with! But I am getting off topic. Maybe I will start a thread after all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Also, I don't know what you mean by "no more conscious sin". In my experience, those Christians who know they can stop sinning by God's grace and power are even more keenly aware of their shortcomings and potential to disobey than those who think they must sin every day.
What I mean by no more conscious sin is reaching a point where you are not aware of any sin in your life, whether it be willful sin or unintentional sin that was later revealed to you by God. This was my brother's belief, not mine.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 3:59:14 PM
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drmark
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quote:
What I mean by no more conscious sin is reaching a point where you are not aware of any sin in your life, whether it be willful sin or unintentional sin that was later revealed to you by God. This was my brother's belief, not mine. I see, thanks for the clarification. I probably agree with your brother's belief more than you think, but it appears from what you said that he did not believe it enough to practice it regularly.
I might suggest that you consider starting this new thread under the FaithWalk - Protestants Only subfolder. I assume you're Protestant and you should get a wider range of responses with a little less doctrinal zeal associated with them.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 4:31:39 PM
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insndreamer
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Thank you for the advice, I thought about posting it there but just put it in General Faith instead. You are correct that I am Protestant.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 4:36:42 PM
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tdd1975
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quote:
ORIGINAL: insndreamer
Of course what God thinks is more important. I don't need to post a thread to find out what He thinks. I don't care what strangers think of me, I just don't want to read discouraging words that will make me more upset with myself than I already am.
I know you meant no offense, but even you asking me why I'm not obeying God with all of my heart is hard for me to read. Why? Because I am trying to obey, and I really don't know how to use the power of God that is available to me. My brother claims that God didn't give him the strength and that's why he failed, but I at least know better than that.
So often I read that the answer to overcoming sin is to just obey. If I knew how to obey, I wouldn't have sin to begin with! But I am getting off topic. Maybe I will start a thread after all.
Brother you are on the right track. Just keep holding on to Jesus and He will do wonderful things in you and through you.
Jud 1:24 ESV Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
He is the one able to keep us from stumbling. Just look to Him. Don’t look for a formula. Don’t look to self. Just trust Him.
BTW I think that would be a great thread too.
_____________________________
As long as we are something, God cannot be all.- Andrew Murray
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 5:28:10 PM
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insndreamer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
Brother you are on the right track. Just keep holding on to Jesus and He will do wonderful things in you and through you.
Jud 1:24 ESV Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
He is the one able to keep us from stumbling. Just look to Him. Don’t look for a formula. Don’t look to self. Just trust Him.
BTW I think that would be a great thread too.
Sister, actually, lol. Thank you, your post is very encouraging to me.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 6:29:54 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
Jud 1:24 ESV Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
Do you consider that verse to be a promise that no one who claims to be a Christian will never stumble?
Or would it be a promise that God will make a way for us to escape tenptation, and we can take that avenue of escape if we so chose. (1 Cor 10:13)?
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 7:49:20 PM
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DoveMinistries
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Dr Mark
quote:
Amen, no disagreement from me on this truth! So why do you think so many posting on this thread do not believe it is possible to live by their God-given new natures and stop sinning?
Scripture answers this also:
2Timothy 3:5
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power.
2Timothy 4:3
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
And these teachers are teaching to confess that we are all sinners.
Instead of confessing that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
I know we are all born into sin, but Christ made a way for us to be clean and stay clean.
And tells us in Matthew 5:29,30 to avoid sin at all cost.
James 1:14
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
God Bless
R Dove
< Message edited by DoveMinistries -- 11/3/2009 8:00:26 PM >
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Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 8:53:03 PM
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evry1needsgod
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dreamer,
quote:
Oh, and the idea that if someone dies shortly after repenting, and before they have a chance to sin, they are sinless for the rest of their lives? I guess that if you only have 5 minutes left in your life then maybe you could go without sinning. But I honestly thought the topic was about living a much longer liftetime without sin.
Actually it was simply and literally asked if it were possible. The reason why I ask such a literal question is to force people to understand the truth. If you can live even the next 5 minutes of your life without sin, then there is no reason for you to assume that you will inevitably fail! And that, my friend, is an amazing Biblical truth that shines Christ's power above the power of sin.
I've found that so many preachers will preach sin down people's throats without the mere mention of a power that puts sin's power to shame. This power, the power of Christ, is capable of enabling you to live perfectly. Not only will it enable you, but it will perform its task if you allow it to. It's that simple.
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 10:41:27 PM
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insndreamer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Actually it was simply and literally asked if it were possible. The reason why I ask such a literal question is to force people to understand the truth. If you can live even the next 5 minutes of your life without sin, then there is no reason for you to assume that you will inevitably fail! And that, my friend, is an amazing Biblical truth that shines Christ's power above the power of sin.
Well, the Bible does say with God all things are possible. But we know that not everything we could possibly imagine is going to happen. I could come up with so many things (even weird things because I have an overactive imagination), and say that it's possible because all things are possible. But I know they are not going to happen.
The Bible tells me that I fall short. And yes, Jesus can and will help me overcome the world, but I still fall short. I will always fall short. Falling short is sin. God asks us to be perfect as He is perfect. I will always strive to be like Jesus, but I will never be as perfect as Jesus. Is it possible to be? That's like asking if God is able to create a stone that is too heavy for Him to lift. It's a moot point. Am I wrong? I could very well be, and I try not to forget that. But at this point, I don't have enough Biblical evidence to show otherwise.
quote:
I've found that so many preachers will preach sin down people's throats without the mere mention of a power that puts sin's power to shame. This power, the power of Christ, is capable of enabling you to live perfectly. Not only will it enable you, but it will perform its task if you allow it to. It's that simple.
It is sad that preachers will focus on sin instead of Christ, but maybe they don't know what else to do when they see morals being neglected left and right. There has to be a balance, I think.
I wish it were simple. Maybe for some it is. Maybe I make it too complicated.
God gave Adam and Eve a choice, they each made a choice. Now we make a choice, except we weren't created perfect like they were. Are we more capable of being perfect than they were, even though we were born with a sinful nature? Did God provide them a way out of sin like He does us? I think He did. And I also think that every man and woman on this planet in all time would have messed up just like Adam and Eve did. That's why we inherit their sin, because we are just like them.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 10:43:55 PM
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drmark
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quote:
The Bible tells me that I fall short. And yes, Jesus can and will help me overcome the world, but I still fall short. I will always fall short. Falling short is sin. Would you please define"falling short" and give a few examples, insn? Is there a Scripture reference that supports this definition of sin?
quote:
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark Is this a test of my sanctified pride, e1ng? 
< Message edited by drmark -- 11/3/2009 10:50:12 PM >
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 11:06:01 PM
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tdd1975
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
Jud 1:24 ESV Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
Do you consider that verse to be a promise that no one who claims to be a Christian will never stumble?
Of course not. I believe it means if we want to not stumble we have to look to the one who has the power to keep us from stumbling. "apart from Him we can do nothing"
quote:
Or would it be a promise that God will make a way for us to escape temptation, and we can take that avenue of escape if we so chose. (1 Cor 10:13)?
Thanks
RC
Yes, He makes a way for us to escape when we are tempted. We just don't always choose correctly. Let us leave it at that for now.
_____________________________
As long as we are something, God cannot be all.- Andrew Murray
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 11:09:46 PM
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evry1needsgod
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drmark,
quote:
Is this a test of my sanctified pride, e1ng?
Did you just now notice my signature? LOL! I thought it was quite the profound statement, and is a statement that I will use quite often when speaking with fellow saints.
Like I told dreamer, so many preachers these days preach about how we are saved in our horrible wretched sinning, but fail to mention that we are also saved FROM our sin through the power of Christ!
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/3/2009 11:24:14 PM
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tdd1975
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quote:
The Bible tells me that I fall short. And yes, Jesus can and will help me overcome the world, but I still fall short. I will always fall short. Falling short is sin. God asks us to be perfect as He is perfect. I will always strive to be like Jesus, but I will never be as perfect as Jesus. Is it possible to be? That's like asking if God is able to create a stone that is too heavy for Him to lift. It's a moot point. Am I wrong? I could very well be, and I try not to forget that. But at this point, I don't have enough Biblical evidence to show otherwise.
You are correct.
1Jn 3:1-3 ESV See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. (2) Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. (3) And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
We have the promise that we will be like Jesus. The time that happens is when we see him. The instant we die or the Lord returns we will be changed. Untill then what does the bible say that we do? We purify ourselves as He is pure. We keep pressing toward the mark which is to be exactly like Jesus.
_____________________________
As long as we are something, God cannot be all.- Andrew Murray
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/4/2009 9:32:15 AM
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rcjames
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yes Christians can stop sinning. That is the purpose of the Gospel; to eraicate sin and its effects.
Now whether a Christian stops sinning or not is a personal choice.
Jesus asks why we would call him lord and not stop sinning;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Jesus says if we love Him, we will stop sinning;
(Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And John says that if we live (Believe) in Christ we will not continue in sin;
(1Jn 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Paul gives us a promise from God that there will be a way to escape all temptations;
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
So we should be about choosing the way our and not sinning.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/4/2009 9:22:12 PM
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evry1needsgod
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"I am no longer a slave to sin. I am dead to sin positionally and personally because of what Jesus did and because of the power of His Spirit. Where others are denying that power, I am going to shout it from the rooftops."
(emphasis mine)
http://setfreefromsin.blogspot.com/2009/05/can-christian-be-set-free-from-sin.html
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/4/2009 9:28:21 PM
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evry1needsgod
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"There is a fundamental fact about sin which many professing Christians fail to grasp. The Christian life and sin should be reminiscent of the relationship between water and oil."
http://christonline.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/rewards-of-sin-how-can-i-stop-sinning/
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/5/2009 9:07:11 AM
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rcjames
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I feel the need to expand a bit;
Ok, if the person is a Christian considers Jesus as Lord, and loves God; why would they choose not to be obedient to Him;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
(Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Why would a Christian wilfully disobey Christ and sin? But whent they do, would you consider them to run into the seriousness of this passage;
(Heb 10:26,27) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Does this imply that wilfull sin of a Christian may not comdems the person to hell, but that it is not covered by the sacrifice, rather it comes under Judgemnt; hence the necessity of repentance, confession, etc. as outlined in First John.
These passages are far too often overlooked by folks and for a myriad of personal reasons, but they should be studied and contenplated.
In general a flippant attitude toward sin committed by Christians, according to John, is an indicator of the person not really knowing God.
(1Jn 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
And shows the necessity of all Believers to do as Paul instructs;
(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Christ said he came to;
(Luk 5:32) I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
So this ole country boy thinks we should be about repentance (stoping sinning, changing our minds about sinning) and start being servants of righteousness.
And praise God He made a way for us to do that and be accepted by Him.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 11/5/2009 9:14:07 AM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/5/2009 11:46:46 AM
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evry1needsgod
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Great point rc. Indeed it all comes down to repentance--how one defines it and to what degree one repents.
I'm curious how the 17 nay-sayers define repentance. Very interesting...
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Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/5/2009 11:51:30 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6724
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Great point rc. Indeed it all comes down to repentance--how one defines it and to what degree one repents.
I'm curious how the 17 nay-sayers define repentance. Very interesting...
Lot's of folks do what I call "Buffet resturaunt repentance", repent of what one wants to repent of, and take a pass on the rest.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 11/5/2009 11:59:09 AM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/5/2009 12:11:45 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1747
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Great point rc. Indeed it all comes down to repentance--how one defines it and to what degree one repents.
I'm curious how the 17 nay-sayers define repentance. Very interesting...
Lot's of folks do what I call "Buffet resturaunt repentance", repent of what one wants to repent of, and take a pass on the rest.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
Yes, the mentality of inevitable failing is NOT repentance at all! Such is the plague of modern Christianity. Too much honor is given to sin when all honor ought to be given to Christ.
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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