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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/16/2009 5:00:51 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 842
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Do you find famine to be hilarious?
What road are YOU trying to go down with this inane question?
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"I prefer clarity to agreement" - Dennis Prager
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/16/2009 6:46:03 PM
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Market42Fan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Mao was an awful person and an awful leader of a country...
But Mao was definitely very slick in how he managed to avoid getting slammed as the monster he was (name the last time anyone has had anything positive to say about Stalin, who probably outranked him in terms of atrocities).
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I'm Bill Kurtis (pause), and I'm a bigger ham that William Shatner.
What I'd like to hear on his AT&T ads.
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/16/2009 6:52:05 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Market42Fan
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Mao was an awful person and an awful leader of a country...
But Mao was definitely very slick in how he managed to avoid getting slammed as the monster he was (name the last time anyone has had anything positive to say about Stalin, who probably outranked him in terms of atrocities).
Stalin is regularly praised for, despite all his awfulness and murders, his turning the U.S.S.R. into a superpower. I've seen Mao receive similar praise (normally it's something akin to him "turning China great") but I disagree with that assessment of Mao. Mao was a decent military leader (not great, but Chiang Kai Shek was awful, so it didn't take much), an excellent propagandist and a master of self-promotion. But he wasted enormous potential and cost many people their lives with ideological policies. If Deng Xiaoping had been in Mao's shoes...
*sigh*
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/16/2009 7:43:55 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6724
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Stalin is regularly praised for, despite all his awfulness and murders, his turning the U.S.S.R. into a superpower. I've seen Mao receive similar praise (normally it's something akin to him "turning China great") but I disagree with that assessment of Mao. Mao was a decent military leader (not great, but Chiang Kai Shek was awful, so it didn't take much), an excellent propagandist and a master of self-promotion. But he wasted enormous potential and cost many people their lives with ideological policies. If Deng Xiaoping had been in Mao's shoes...
*sigh*
In the spirit of honest disclosure are you from "China" or from "Fomosa"?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 2:18:33 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Stalin is regularly praised for, despite all his awfulness and murders, his turning the U.S.S.R. into a superpower. I've seen Mao receive similar praise (normally it's something akin to him "turning China great") but I disagree with that assessment of Mao. Mao was a decent military leader (not great, but Chiang Kai Shek was awful, so it didn't take much), an excellent propagandist and a master of self-promotion. But he wasted enormous potential and cost many people their lives with ideological policies. If Deng Xiaoping had been in Mao's shoes...
*sigh*
In the spirit of honest disclosure are you from "China" or from "Fomosa"?
Just call it "Taiwan", and no, I'm not from there. I've been there though. Nice place, kind of Japanish, nice mountains, a little boring though. Doesn't compare to Hangzhou and Shanghai.
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 2:51:10 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2551
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: parkerbrother
Let me ask you something. If I create a great work of art, then commit a heinous crime, does the heinousness of my crime make the work of art less great? Does the greatness of the work of art make the crime less heinous?
People of reasonable intellect are able distinguish the value of a work or an action on it's own merit. They are capable of seeing the world in other then absolutes.
They are also able to have a conversation about such things without resorting to simpleminded hyperbole.
People of reasonable intellect would never call GWB a war monger, war criminal, or murderer, because he wasn't. He simply was not competent enough to manage two wars, and the result of his incompetence was 5000 dead American solders, 25000 severely wounded American solders, and somewhere on the order of a half a million dead Iraqis with little to show for it.
Dunn is eminently qualified for her position. If she would work for republicans, any republican would be happy to have her. She is one of the reasons Obama won, and one of the reason he will win again, easily, in 2012.
People of reasonable intellect know for a absolute fact that this is nothing more than a Fox hatched job that will amount to nothing.
Also, people of reasonable intellect know the proper uses of "then" and "than", realize that "soldiers" get wounded, not "solders", "soldiers" get killed, not "solders", and are also able to distinguish between "hatched" jobs and "hatchet" jobs.
If you are going to pursue an ad hominem against someone for not having "reasonable intellect", then you should at least demonstrate the "basic" intellect required to give your attack some grammatically correct gravitas. Just sayin' 
Back to the point: people of reasonable intellect are able to understand that the political philosophies of the largest mass-murderer in world history are probably best avoided. A person of reasonable intellect would be alarmed when an unaccountable appointed leader claims that one of her "favorite political philosophers" and one of the two people she "turns to most" espoused political philosophies that led to the largest cultural disaster in world history, including the death of at least 70 million people.
Good thing there are at least a few people of reasonable intellect left in the USA. Too bad there aren't more.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 3:15:21 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 664
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I'm not an apologist for Mao. I noted earlier that he was an awful person and an awful leader. Please don't go down this road.
Do you find famine to be hilarious?
Let's stick to the programme, shall we? We find this woman to be d.i.s.t.u.r.b.i.n.g., like so many other "progressive" liberals in education.
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I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 3:20:43 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 664
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From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Do you find famine to be hilarious?
What road are YOU trying to go down with this inane question?
Indeed. I'm kinda, sorta, following along with the gist of this banter and, to me, it's more on the lines of let's play a game. You Trick Me Before I Trick You.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 3:35:25 AM
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rockominal
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I didn't mean to suggest that I was a "progressive" liberal educator in my previous post. However, with all that is happening, I need to step in the class room or at least attend some meetings, or something. I don't have any kids but I just want to see what's going on. I want to see how some of these people with degrees in education can impress me. Actually, I want to go into the classroom and break the monotony. Seriously. 
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 1:38:16 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2533
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Here is what bugs me about this thread.
I have two quotes on my sig line from two of my favorite inspirations. They are my favorite not because I like them or because I agree with them, but rather because they say something important about human nature. In fact, Mencken was a bit of a miserable little misanthrope.
If I had to list favorite political philosophers, I would have to add Machiavelli to the list. I admire is wit and am simultaneously apalled by his ruthlessness. He is a favorite not because I like him, but because I find him fascinating in the confluence of intellectual brilliance and moral turpitude.
My liberal friends are apalled that I list Orrin Hatch as a favorite politician. I don't agree with him at all but I think his ability to forge friendship with Ed Kennedy says something important about being able to see something valuable in deeply flawed people.
Saying that Mao is among one's favorites is insufficient grounds for Beck's tirades and many of the comments here. What is more important to know is WHY Mao would be a favorite. The man was capable of both great evil and great strategy. In that sense, he is fascinating and offers things that can be learned.
His response to the Chinese Nationalists whe
they told him his battle was hopeless was brilliant. Thy controlled all the major assets but Mao realized he didn't have to fight the war they way the other side wanted him to. "You fight your battle, I'll fight mine" was a brilliant response that the later Viet Namese learned well. They lost nearly every conventional military battle yet won the war.
Knowing WHY he is a favorite of Dunn's would be critical to know. This is no left wing flake. She has been a Washington insider for 30 years. Unfortunately it was more important for some people to score points in a silly feud than to find out what she actually meant.
Now we will likely never really know, and I think that's a tragedy. If there really IS an issue, it will never come to light. If there is NO issue, she will live under that cloud needlessly. It's quite stupid.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 10/17/2009 1:44:59 PM >
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 2:02:54 PM
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rockominal
Posts: 664
Joined: 8/15/2007
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It amazes me how this Soetoro administration still manages to justify it's own existence. 
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 2:15:05 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
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All excellent points, GroupW.
It seems like a lot of the criticism from the right these days consists of quotemining and guilt by association. Not really helpful, not productive, not useful.
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 4:57:06 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3043
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
All excellent points, GroupW.
It seems like a lot of the criticism from the right these days consists of quotemining and guilt by association. Not really helpful, not productive, not useful.
What continually amazes me is not that people are duped by this simplistic hysteria, but that once it's pointed out that they're being duped, they choose to continue being duped. It should be obvious to anyone w/ half a brain that this lady isn't praising Mao as a great, virtuous leader.
Why do conservatives want to be wrong?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 5:02:24 PM
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henny
Posts: 897
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
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quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- White House communications director Anita Dunn fired back at criticism from TV commentator Glenn Beck on Friday, saying that a Mao Tse-tung quote Beck took issue with was picked up from legendary GOP strategist Lee Atwater.
White House communications director Anita Dunn says she picked up a Mao quote from a legendary Republican.
"The Mao quote is one I picked up from the late Republican strategist Lee Atwater from something I read in the late 1980s, so I hope I don't get my progressive friends mad at me," Dunn told CNN.
As for Beck's criticism: "The use of the phrase 'favorite political philosophers' was intended as irony, but clearly the effort fell flat -- at least with a certain Fox commentator whose sense of irony may be missing."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/16/beck.dunn/index.html
Apparently Media Matters also found an instance where Newt Gingrich quoted Mao back in the 1990s, yet no republicans complained then (probably because they weren't under the influence of the sensationalized insanity of foxnews).
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200910160010
This whole thing is ludicrous.
_____________________________
Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.
-William Blake
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 5:18:16 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3043
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/16/beck.dunn/index.html
Apparently Media Matters also found an instance where Newt Gingrich quoted Mao back in the 1990s, yet no republicans complained then (probably because they weren't under the influence of the sensationalized insanity of foxnews).
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200910160010
This whole thing is ludicrous.
LOL.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 5:51:05 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
All excellent points, GroupW.
It seems like a lot of the criticism from the right these days consists of quotemining and guilt by association. Not really helpful, not productive, not useful.
What continually amazes me is not that people are duped by this simplistic hysteria, but that once it's pointed out that they're being duped, they choose to continue being duped. It should be obvious to anyone w/ half a brain that this lady isn't praising Mao as a great, virtuous leader.
Why do conservatives want to be wrong?
People have preferences over which beliefs they hold. Instead of fairly weighing all claims, we can show nepotism toward our favorite beliefs.
Ayn Rand, one of my favorite philosophers, called it "blanking out": "the willful suspension of one's consciousness, the refusal to think--not blindness, but the refusal to see; not ignorance, but the refusal to know."
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 5:55:48 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3043
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Ayn Rand, one of my favorite philosophers
LOL
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 7:02:06 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 657
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Here is what bugs me about this thread.
I have two quotes on my sig line from two of my favorite inspirations. They are my favorite not because I like them or because I agree with them, but rather because they say something important about human nature. In fact, Mencken was a bit of a miserable little misanthrope.
If I had to list favorite political philosophers, I would have to add Machiavelli to the list. I admire is wit and am simultaneously apalled by his ruthlessness. He is a favorite not because I like him, but because I find him fascinating in the confluence of intellectual brilliance and moral turpitude.
My liberal friends are apalled that I list Orrin Hatch as a favorite politician. I don't agree with him at all but I think his ability to forge friendship with Ed Kennedy says something important about being able to see something valuable in deeply flawed people.
Saying that Mao is among one's favorites is insufficient grounds for Beck's tirades and many of the comments here. What is more important to know is WHY Mao would be a favorite. The man was capable of both great evil and great strategy. In that sense, he is fascinating and offers things that can be learned.
His response to the Chinese Nationalists whe
they told him his battle was hopeless was brilliant. Thy controlled all the major assets but Mao realized he didn't have to fight the war they way the other side wanted him to. "You fight your battle, I'll fight mine" was a brilliant response that the later Viet Namese learned well. They lost nearly every conventional military battle yet won the war.
Knowing WHY he is a favorite of Dunn's would be critical to know. This is no left wing flake. She has been a Washington insider for 30 years. Unfortunately it was more important for some people to score points in a silly feud than to find out what she actually meant.
Now we will likely never really know, and I think that's a tragedy. If there really IS an issue, it will never come to light. If there is NO issue, she will live under that cloud needlessly. It's quite stupid.
Most of us know and care for people who are deeply flawed. I don't think that is unique.
"You fight your battle, I'll fight mine." How profound.
I am not surprised to hear that Newt Gingrich quoted Mao in the past. He thinks that because he is so intelligent he can get away with things like that. I wish it had been brought out by the press at the time. By the way, he is now supporting that RINO in New York who is pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and who supported the stimulus package. So, there are really no true conservatives anymore. Just when you think you've found one, he does stupid things like the above.
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 8:48:45 PM
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henny
Posts: 897
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
I am not surprised to hear that Newt Gingrich quoted Mao in the past. He thinks that because he is so intelligent he can get away with things like that.
What's wrong with quoting Mao if something that Mao said was particularly applicable to a given situation?
The exact quote Gingrich took was "War is politics with blood; politics is war without blood," -which is something that I guess people could agree or disagree with, but I see nothing egregiously awful about the quote itself. There's a difference between the content of one's speech and the person making a statement -something which modern conservatives of Beck's ilk seem to be entirely unable to grasp. 2+2, for example, still equals 4 regardless of if Jesus says it or Mao says it. Indeed, some of history's most "quotable" figures led lives that were way less than savory (politically or morally) -so I guess if we applied Beck's standards they'd all be off limits?
I think it's interesting, however, that no conservatives complained when Gingrich quoted Mao back in the 1990s, just because it demonstrates how far the conservative movement has regressed since then. What's troubling about modern conservatives of Beck's ilk is the rampant strain of anti-intellectualism that they encourage. I think every politician SHOULD be familiar with the writings of Mao--even if only to critique them. Previous generations of conservative leaders (Gingrich, Attwater) clearly had the intellectual acumen and curiosity to do so, but I fear that today any conservative politician would be massacred by the conservative media if they showed such intellectual curiosity.
Which I fear has created a party where one must appeal to the absolute lowest common denominator if they want to get ahead. Conservatives all pine for Reagen and glorify him as the conservative deity, but I truly think that if Reagen were to run for office today he wouldn't make it past the primaries just because he couldn't survive the vetting process by the three ring circus of the conservative media (Fox News, Talk radio, and blogs) which has sprung up in the years since he was in office. I can just see some of the stories they'd run on him (Hollywood elite?).
_____________________________
Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.
-William Blake
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 10:01:49 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2533
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Well said.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/17/2009 11:07:32 PM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 546
Status: offline
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quote:
What's wrong with quoting Mao if something that Mao said was particularly applicable to a given situation?
I dunno if that's such a wise thing to do... I got a beatdown, on another thread, for applying a Churchill quote to a given situation, because I wasn't "accurate". But, as Jimmy Buffett says: "read dozens of books about heroes and crooks/ and learned much from both of their styles" Son of a Son of a Sailor
_____________________________
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." -Ronald Reagan
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/18/2009 2:17:57 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 664
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
Conservatives all pine for Reagen and glorify him as the conservative deity, but I truly think that if Reagen were to run for office today he wouldn't make it past the primaries just because he couldn't survive the vetting process by the three ring circus of the conservative media (Fox News, Talk radio, and blogs) which has sprung up in the years since he was in office. I can just see some of the stories they'd run on him (Hollywood elite?).
If you're talking about Reagan, that's quite a hypothesis, of sorts.  ; to put it kindly.
I truly WISH we could test it.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/18/2009 2:25:56 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 664
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
What continually amazes me is not that people are duped by this simplistic hysteria, but that once it's pointed out that they're being duped, they choose to continue being duped. It should be obvious to anyone w/ half a brain that this lady isn't praising Mao as a great, virtuous leader.
Why do conservatives want to be wrong?
-Dan.
I don't know. Going by the context of this, why do liberals seem to never have the need of or the lack of gall?
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: B.O. Comm Dir. "Mao is My inspiration" - 10/18/2009 2:28:54 AM
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Marcus.
Posts: 2217
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Next to my fireplace.
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
Actually, Glen Beck showed a video of her speaking to HIGH SCHOOL students LAST June. She said that she admired the political philosophies of Mao Tse Tung and Mother Theresa. Didn't Mao murder 70-100million of his people?
From Jeff Cooper's Commentaries.
The syndicated columnist, Walter Williams, who happens to be a college professor, has finished a study (September 1995) of governmental murder and has concluded that in the twentieth century far more people were killed by their own governments than died in war. Statistics are always questionable, but Williams' come out as follows:
Killed in Warfare: 39 million
Killed by Lenin and Stalin: 62 million
Killed by Mao Tse-tung: 35 million
Killed by Hitler: 21 million
These are the leaders, and the figures are beyond comprehension, but coming down to more comprehensible numbers we find that 2 million were killed in Turkey, 2 million in Cambodia, 1.5 million in Mexico, and 1 million by Tito in the Balkans. It should be noted that the time over which these atrocities were perpetrated has a bearing on the magnitude of their atrocity. Combined executions committed by Lenin and Stalin, for example, were spread over 70 years between 1917 and 1987. Mao's murders took place over about 37 years between 1949 and 1987, so his intensity could have been greater. Hitler's 21 million were murdered over a much shorter period, and so the intensity factor pretty well evens out, but the fact remains that vastly more homicide was perpetrated in this century of slaughter by governments against their own people than by armies against enemies. Man's inhumanity to man seems more virulent when it is domestic.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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