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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/14/2009 12:18:43 AM
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cynthia
Posts: 7343
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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I went through a stage where I would do whatever my husband wanted and I depended on him to make all the decisions. It just about killed the poor guy. He told me later that he felt I was no help at all. It was all on him and he had lost the wife he had thought he married. I cannot begin to list the trouble it caused, but we did learn from that and came to realize that we have to work together and make decision together, not just him having "final say." That is not how it is meant to be. The husband and wife are supposed to work as one.
Cindy I hope your eye gets better quickly and that you have your will in order. That is very cool about meeting oneofhisjewels.
_____________________________
Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/14/2009 2:20:10 AM
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narnia
Posts: 354
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quote:
Ooooo Cindy considering going to the doctor?! Do you have your will in order? I figure it must be bad if you are considering going to the doctor!
LOL His!
Do hope your eye is better Cindy.
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Domestic Diva, according to our Forums Mother!
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/14/2009 6:52:47 AM
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zoebob
Posts: 7585
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
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LOL His. That was a good one. I do hope Cindy's eye feels better soon.
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L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/14/2009 9:09:08 AM
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daughter_of_faith
Posts: 798
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From: Great Plains, Kansas
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I agree with y'all. We're just still working through that & trying to figure out how to communicate effectively.
Yay for meeting people. Oh, how much fun is that!!!!
Boo for eye goop. Hope it gets better soon.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/14/2009 2:08:16 PM
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macokjc
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quote:
I am driving to Pittsburgh tomorrow to meet OneOfHisJewels for lunch! I can't wait!
Oh, I'm jealous! When are you coming to my side of the state?
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/14/2009 4:34:11 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7343
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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I had a blessing today. A woman in our homeschool group is selling Apologia Chemistry for $25. This is the book, solutions manual and supplimental CD-rom. I really do not have the extra $25 right now, but felt I ought to see if it had sold and it had not. I made arrangements to pick it up, but then the woman e-mailed me again and told me it is free. She said she felt the Lord telling her that she was to give it away for free. I am very blessed and have asked her if there is anything she needs that I may be able to help her with. Since I have two others coming up, I don't get rid of any high school level materials, but I have a lot of stuff I could lend to her. Would you please take a moment to pray and ask the Lord to reveal if there is anything I can do for her?
_____________________________
Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/14/2009 7:44:34 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 616
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From: Northwest PA
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Had a blast with OneOfHisJewels, and no, His, I did NOT wear anything Steelers related. I don't own anything Steelers realated. I do, however, remember why I hate driving in Pittsburgh so much. 
My eye seems a little better, so I don't think I need to update my will this week. 
Better, it's a good thing your mom doesn't know my boys. She'd have had that heart attack years ago - probably when she'd caught Jesse most of the way up a 40 foot pine tree. When he was 2.  As for your instructor, yep, I hear ya. I remember a nursing instructor I had once - she went straight from her BSN program to her MSN and then started teaching. I wanted to give a deltoid injection to a patient once (patient had a leg in traction, so it made more sense to shoot him in the arm) and I couldn't because she had never done one.
Cynthia, that is really cool about the curriculum, and I'll pray that you find a way to bless her.
_____________________________
If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 11:01:10 AM
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shadowspring
Posts: 534
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Well be cautious what you read, daughter of faith. There are a lot of books out there that counsel that a good Christian wife is passive and lets her husband have his way all the time, should keep quiet even when she thinks he is making a really bad decision, and should stroke his ego even when he is not being at all Christlike. They take a few scriptures about how to deal with an unbelieving husband and exalt them over all the "one another" teachings of Jesus.
It has caused shipwreck in many a marriage, so whatever you read, even if it seems "biblical" or especially when someone claims it is "biblical", pray earnestly for the Lord to show you the truth, and search the scriptures daily and make sure that the whole counsel of God is in harmony with any teaching before you accept it.
My marriage is still digging out of the rubble left behind form these types of teachings.
Rather than being a model of respect for husbands, they actually dishonor husbands by teaching that men have fragile egos incapable of listening to opinions not originating from themselves. This great disrespect is passed off as the showing of the highest respect, which though unnamed should be called "unmerited respect".
No one will ever be all they can be if they are shown unmerited respect. It is akin to praising our children for doing lazy, shoddy work and acting as if they have accomplished great things when they have actually put in little effort in and produced poor results. Eventually they will have to face that they are not great at all, but actually quite inferior when they are called on to be responsible in the world to provide that skill.
So it is when we flatter anyone, but how egregious it is when we were called by God to actually be a helper/partner with that person we flatter. That someone says it is "biblical" and gives "biblical" examples (like Esther with wicked king Xerxes) does not make it true.
So be on your guard and on your knees when you pick up any book on Christian marriage! There are a lot to choose from, and they probably all contain some worthwhile advice. But be on your guard against error, because if you put into practice it is your marriage that will suffer, not the author of the book.
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 12:18:44 PM
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his_chosen
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I need some grading help! I suspected that ds4 was looking at the answers in the back of the book so I tore out the answer pages and put them "away". Uh, yah, I lost 'em! He's doing direct objects. If I remember correctly, the DO is never in the prepositional phrase? So, for "Jean drew a picture of the doghouse", you cross out "of the doghouse", leaving "Jean drew a picture". "Jean" is the subject, "drew" is the verb, so "picture" is the DO. Right???
I am so tired today! I'm not sure why. I was up early because I had a double workout to do--2000meter swim, 6mile run. Really, no biggie. THe swim went well, but I was dragging on the run. My cup of coffee didnt' help, so I had a second. As soon as I'm done grading, I'm taking a nap!
_____________________________
You have a choice. You can throw in the towel or you can use it to wipe the sweat off your face.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 12:26:13 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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From: The EMPIRE state!
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His, I believe that you are right. I doubled checked myself here: http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/directobject.htm
They seem to be saying the same thing.
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Believe very little of others opinions of you, and believe less of your opinions of yourself. The only opinion that matters is that of your Creator, and He thinks you're to die for.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 12:38:54 PM
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his_chosen
Posts: 1232
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Ellie-Mae--thank you!!!
_____________________________
You have a choice. You can throw in the towel or you can use it to wipe the sweat off your face.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 12:51:18 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7343
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
My husband *knows* what I would prefer. He has never wanted me to be passive and say "Yes dear, whatever dear". But I know what he would prefer, and why, and I choose to submit to his compromise rather than fight to have things done *my* way.
This is a key difference in what we believe the Bible teaches. I have not seen anywhere that the Bible says to submit to my husband's wishes. It says to submit to my husband. The two are not the same. Submitting to my husband means that I consider him as important as myself and put him first. I listen to him and respect what he has to say. I don't treat him as infurior or like a child, but as an equal. This is far different than submitting to his desires or decisions.
_____________________________
Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 1:27:54 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7343
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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What I found when my understanding of the marital relationship changed was that my attitude had to significantly change. It’s not about behavior. It’s about attitude. Submission is not a behavior. It impacts behavior, because attitude is what drives our behavior. The Christian walk is not about behavior. If a person is walking with the Lord, her attitude will be one of surrender to the Lord and that will impact her behavior. If the heart is not right, it doesn’t matter how obedient one is to the Bible, but if the heart is right, then the behavior will be out of that obedience. This is the same concept in the marriage relationship. When a woman has an attitude of submission, she will think in terms of what is best for her husband and how she can serve him. The same is true of the husband. If the husband has a loving and honoring attitude towards his wife, he will think in terms of how he can serve her. When both parties hearts are right, they will work together, as one, in unity of spirit. It’s meant to be a beautiful thing.
_____________________________
Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 3:37:45 PM
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Sideways
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So even though you have strong misgivings about public school, you would've sent your children there if your husband insisted? I honestly think you and Cynthia have very different views on submission, but you both have studied the scripture and are following it as you feel led. It's one reason I don't believe there is one single "Christian World View". So many of us read, interpret and apply the scriptures differently.
Cynthia expressed my views very well I think.
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Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 5:02:17 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
So even though you have strong misgivings about public school, you would've sent your children there if your husband insisted?
Yes. For two reasons. I don't believe that public school would be 100% destructive, especially in elementary school, even though I much prefer homeschooling for many reasons. (I was in public school in Kindergarten, and in highschool, and I like to think that I turned out a relatively decent person  ) And, I know that my husband is open to changing his views if and when he's made a wrong decision.
Also, submission is a choice on my part. My husband wouldn't have insisted or forced it. Instead of creating a situation where I either had to pick to submit to something I really, really didn't agree with, or go completely against his wishes, he chose a compromise position that he thought we both could live with even though neither of us were 100% happy with what we thought that meant. (As it turned out, we were *both* wrong in our assumptions)
If ps had been as unhelpful as I assumed, dh would have pulled them right out, acknowledging he'd been wrong. If it hadn't been that awful, I would have acknowledged I'd been wrong.
I was not happy about the cyber school at all to begin with, having been told by some homeschoolers that it's just sneaky governmental control, no different from sending away them to school, it's not real homeschooling, it can't possibly be any good, and the state accountability makes it a total hassle. As it turns out, my fears about it were unfounded. And as humbling as it may be for me, I've seen that the kids and I really thrive on the setup we have now, and that we wouldn't thrive on the style of homeschooling I'd envisioned when I was a romantically-minded teenager dreaming of my prairie muffin life.  On dh's part, what started out as a concession to me (because he loves me and does respect my opinions) was what opened his eyes to how beneficial learning at home can be. That wouldn't have happened if I'd insisted on my way or the highway, because I had romanticized and over-estimated what I was able to do and "my way" wouldn't have had nearly the positive impact on dh as his compromise did.
Because he has shown good judgement, and is willing to listen to me and either change a decision or make a compromise, and is also willing to turn around if it's clear he's headed the wrong way, I have no fear of submitting to him and I don't feel (anymore ) that I am always right and that making a mutual decision on something means that we both agree on what *I* want.
< Message edited by 3cappuccinosmom -- 10/15/2009 5:15:52 PM >
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 Moo
The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 5:22:08 PM
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2jsmom
Posts: 2606
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My marriage is more like the way 3cappuccinosmom describes hers. My husband and I discuss things, and we each seek to come to a compromise, but it's more likely that the final outcome will lean more toward what my husband wanted. I respect his judgment and realize that sometimes it's hard to know ahead of time how things will turn out. Unless I'm 100% sure I'm right and he's wrong, I'm willing to try things his way. There is one exception to that. If it's medical, I'm making the call. I'm not one to run the kids to the doctor very often, but he never feels it's necessary. I've learned that my experience at the hospital combined with mom instincts make my judgment better than his in that area.
We've been married 30 years and I've learned that it's very important to show my husband that I respect him. I'm sure you all will think I'm very old fashioned, but he is the head of our house. I don't feel like I'm made to be less of a person by living this way. We have a happy marriage and my husband is truly my best friend. Maybe it has to do with different personalities, but this works for both of us. I felt like I had to say something to give perspective on the other side because I've seen too many women tear down their homes with their own hands in order to assert their rights.
_____________________________
"Everybody is a genius. But, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing that it is stupid." - Albert Einstein
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 5:28:30 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7343
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
if and when he's made a wrong decision.
Also, submission is a choice on my part. My husband wouldn't have insisted or forced it. Instead of creating a situation where I either had to pick to submit to something I really, really didn't agree with, or go completely against his wishes, he chose a compromise position that he thought we both could live with even though neither of us were 100% happy with what we thought that meant. (As it turned out, we were *both* wrong in our assumptions)
And this is where we part ways. You say he chose a compromise that he thought you both could live with. In my marriage, it is a mutual choice, not my choice, not my husband's choice, but our choice together.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
That wouldn't have happened if I'd insisted on my way or the highway, because I had romanticized and over-estimated what I was able to do and "my way" wouldn't have had nearly the positive impact on dh as his compromise did.
I don't recall reading anyone here suggesting a woman demand her own way. I think that is unbiblical. Husband and wife are to work together to find what is best for them and the family. No one should demand anything. (Well perhaps there are times to make demands, like "Either you repent of that sin or you leave this house," but that is only in dire circumstances and can still be done with an attitude of submission.)
_____________________________
Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: Pumpkins and Falling Leaves - October Chat - 10/15/2009 5:59:16 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 4025
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
Husband and wife are to work together to find what is best for them and the family. No one should demand anything.
Which is what I described in our family.
In the context of a complementarian viewpoint, with him having an element of leadership and me submitting to that leadership, we *both* had room to express our opinions, and he chose not to use his position to make a unilateral decision that went totally his way, while I chose to submit to his decision, respecting his position on it, even though it didn't fit perfectly into my idealized visions of homeschooling. Dh did not demand that I put our children on a bus, even though he was very worried about the adequacy of homeschooling. What he did ask, and what was perfectly reasonable to ask, was that we start homeschooling in a way that would leave him feeling assured that our children were getting a proper education and that their educaiton would be fully recognized by the state later on in life. If I couldn't submit to that, then I *really* would have had a disrespectful attitude.
_____________________________
Moo
The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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