|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/8/2009 7:41:21 AM
|
|
|
accent
Posts: 14
Status: offline
|
Even at a 150 dates a year times $3000 = $450,000.
6 salaries at $500 = $3,000 X 52 weeks = $156,000
still leaves $294,000 plus profits from product sales to
cover other expenses. Guess the owners are raking in in.
What a shame for a singer who leaves his family for 4 - 5 days
a week and receives only $26,000 a year. (based on frogs
figures of $500 a week X 52 weeks) AIN"T NO WONDER
SOME HAVE TO LEAVE GROUPS AND GO TO OTHER WORK.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/8/2009 8:43:19 AM
|
|
|
HigherNote4U
Posts: 110
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
|
Accent...you said it all in your last. Just understand that the $294,000 a year plus profits from product sales has to cover a bus payment (in most cases..and yes it is required for most), fuel for that monster, cost to record an album which I would guess would start in the $20,000 range (low end), any insurance for the group members (if even offered), plus all of the upkeep and maintenance on the bus.
Keep in mind that most groups leave out and hit the road on wednesday nights, depending on where they have to go. They ususally sing thursday-sunday and then are home by the wee hours of the morning on monday...just to turn around and leave out again wednesday.
Tiring would be an understatement.
Now...so that this topic isn't closed...let's get back on track. It's not about what it costs to keep a group on the road. It's about generating interest in the industry.
quote:
ORIGINAL: accent
Even at a 150 dates a year times $3000 = $450,000.
6 salaries at $500 = $3,000 X 52 weeks = $156,000
still leaves $294,000 plus profits from product sales to
cover other expenses. Guess the owners are raking in in.
What a shame for a singer who leaves his family for 4 - 5 days
a week and receives only $26,000 a year. (based on frogs
figures of $500 a week X 52 weeks) AIN"T NO WONDER
SOME HAVE TO LEAVE GROUPS AND GO TO OTHER WORK.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/8/2009 10:15:01 AM
|
|
|
kingsman
Posts: 636
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline
|
Don't some churches take a cut on what love offerings bring in?
That said, it seems like we are again steering off track from the OP.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/8/2009 6:43:13 PM
|
|
|
GospelDoc
Posts: 16
Joined: 9/5/2008
Status: offline
|
There is quite a decline in concerts and attendance. There seems to be a dis-connect between the business and ministry. Though, they should be the same. A comment was made "the artists are cutting off the lifeline by not doing "love offering" concerts". Artists are cutting off the lifeline by not keeping their overhead on the level with their income. They just know someday God is going to make them "Superstars" and that song is going to "take off". What if it doesn't?
What artists are accomplishing by not cutting their overhead to a reasonable level, is cutting off their own head. I know of full-time professional artists who are ditching the bus for other modes of transportation. They are cutting the budget for the recording, the radio promotion, the advertising and promotion. Cutting these first and not cutting the pay for the members, is a blessing to the members and keeps them going. Sure, it becomes a little inconvenient, but the managers have to make a decision, what can I cut and keep moving forward. It's just business.
Ultimately, the fans are the ones that have to carry the weight. Who pays for the million dollar bus, the fuel for the bus, the $50,000 recording, the $1000 magazine ads? The fans do. The fans are running out of money and have their own budgets to deal with. If you, as an artist, cannot find ways to do what you do without these expensive things, well find another line of work.
GospelDoc
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 3:20:06 AM
|
|
|
kingsman
Posts: 636
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline
|
God is our provider ... Yahewh-jireh ... and our shepherd Yahweh-rohi. Genesis 22:13-14, Psalms 23, Matthew 6:11, Philippians 4:6-8, etc.
There is no recession in heaven; God's storehouses are still full. Let's be like Paul and learn to always be content.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 6:13:52 AM
|
|
|
andygood
Posts: 11
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
|
You know the person that started this thread asked why people aren't as interested in Southern Gospel and I've really been doing a lot of thinking about that the last few days. In my deep mode of thinking I've come up win another possible reason!
As I look back to when I fell in love with southern gospel music, one thing I remember was the consistency of the big groups.... Personell wise. I can remember waiting all year for the cathedrals because they came to our area evey year to the same church..... It would always be Glenn, George,Roger, Scott and Ernie. The Kingsmen came thru more often but for years it was Jim, Eldridge, Ray, Gary Shephard,Tim Surrett and Parker Jonathan. It was the same way with Gold City with Tim, Ivan Parker, Brian Free and Mike Lefevre. In those days even the Dixie Melody Boys came thru with the same line up year after year.
I may be reaching to far here, but I really think the personell changes are hurting the industry as a whole. For example, consider this years NQC..... How many of the top name groups (family groups don't count) Will have the same lineup they had two years ago? There are a few but not many. The following groups have all had personell changes: Inspirations, Gold City, BF&A, Greater Vision, Tribute, Kingsmen, EH&SS, Dixie Melody Boys, Perrys, Gaither Vocal Band, Mark Trammel Trio.
Just a thought
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 9:21:31 AM
|
|
|
Dinana
Posts: 3040
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Kennesaw, GA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: andygood
You know the person that started this thread asked why people aren't as interested in Southern Gospel and I've really been doing a lot of thinking about that the last few days. In my deep mode of thinking I've come up win another possible reason!
As I look back to when I fell in love with southern gospel music, one thing I remember was the consistency of the big groups.... Personell wise. I can remember waiting all year for the cathedrals because they came to our area evey year to the same church..... It would always be Glenn, George,Roger, Scott and Ernie. The Kingsmen came thru more often but for years it was Jim, Eldridge, Ray, Gary Shephard,Tim Surrett and Parker Jonathan. It was the same way with Gold City with Tim, Ivan Parker, Brian Free and Mike Lefevre. In those days even the Dixie Melody Boys came thru with the same line up year after year.
I may be reaching to far here, but I really think the personell changes are hurting the industry as a whole. For example, consider this years NQC..... How many of the top name groups (family groups don't count) Will have the same lineup they had two years ago? There are a few but not many. The following groups have all had personell changes: Inspirations, Gold City, BF&A, Greater Vision, Tribute, Kingsmen, EH&SS, Dixie Melody Boys, Perrys, Gaither Vocal Band, Mark Trammel Trio.
Just a thought
You may have a point. But I don't think Greater Vision really fits in the group with personnel changes though because that was one personnel change in 13 years!!!
_____________________________
<<< Triumphant Quartet
www.youtube.com/DinanaSN
www.sgconcerts.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 2:47:32 PM
|
|
|
pastorjohn11776
Posts: 21
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline
|
Here's a different thought: Could it be that some of the diminishing interest in SG music is due to the fact that music in our culture is changing? Like it or not, the musical tastes of many Christians are directly influenced by what is not only popular in the culture, but what we hear around us all the time -- from backgrounds on TV commercials, to music playing in the stores we frequent, both secular and Christian radio, etc.etc.
There has been a huge change in the past 50 or 60 years in what music is "popular" in our society. Singers and groups that were big names a few years ago would not make it today with the styles they sang with back then. Can you imagine a radio station that plays popular music doing a Frank Sinatra style song nowadays? Times are just different.
Even in churches -- many churches no longer use hymns or hymn books. In many churches it has been years since the old "gospel songs" were used. People's tastes have been changed by the music they have been exposed to.
We have people who attend our church (Baby Boomers and younger) who simply do not like SG music. They enjoy contemporary Christian music, and praise & worship music, but put on a SG CD or have someone sing an SG style song in church and they do not enjoy it. I played about half of a Gaither Vocal Band CD at a church picnic a couple years ago and someone asked if I could please shut it off!
I'm not sure what the answer is, except to say that culture is constantly changing, music is changing, and if SG is going to retain any sense of relevance, perhaps it will have to -- ahem -- change (I know that is a nasty word to some people). We hear complaints about the more progressive SG groups, and how they are polluting the wonderful world of SG music, but they may well be the future of this genre.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 4:08:58 PM
|
|
|
BSMM
Posts: 6
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Good point Pastor John. But what I don't/can't understand is why it has to be one or the other. The church I currently attend is a Big church (3-morning services) and the music is contemporary. This past sunday in sunday school some folks ask me where I was the previous sunday. I told them I was singing, what group etc.etc. They said they absolutly LOVE southern gospel. So my warped way of thinking is if they like SG, and our church is as big as it is, they most certantly can't be the only ones that like it. A couple of years ago I contacted my church (before I attended) about booking the group I was with...They wanted no part of Southern Gospel.
I just don't understand why it can't be a good mixture of both. I am not a contemporary fan...but I can most certanly appriciate it....I also think that if people were exposed to some southern gospel they also would maybe not be a fan, but learn to appriciate it as well. Why can't we do some of both have a contemporary group come in this month.......next month a southern gospel group come in. Give us all a good variety, and learn to appriciate somthing new.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 4:54:59 PM
|
|
|
pastorjohn11776
Posts: 21
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline
|
BSMM -- You make some good points, and if it was all about fairness and equality, your argument would be valid. However, many people do not like all kinds of music (or even several different kinds). In the secular realm, a lot of people who like rock don't like country, and vice versa. Likewise, many who enjoy Southern Gospel aren't too big on contemporary, and vice versa. (I know some like both -- don't everyone throw stones at me -- but not everyone does.) Chances are the people you contacted at your church about booking your SG group just didn't care for SG -- and those in leadership make the decisions, so that was the end of the story.
Sometimes people need to be exposed to something long enough to develop a taste for it. The hard part is exposing them to SG long enough for them to develop the taste for it. And, sadly, some will never like it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 7:41:39 PM
|
|
|
servants
Posts: 107
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Hays,NC
Status: offline
|
I know all churches are different, but our quartet has been in to several contemporary churches and we have had good luck and sold several cd's while there. Most have booked us back while we are there. These churches have been in NC, SC, Tenn and Va area. We did have one music minister in a big Baptist church tell us that he thought it was a mistake for us to sing there because his church liked praise and worship, but after the service there was so many people that told him they like that type of music that he called us and booked again. Since then I know of 2 big groups that have been there.
_____________________________
Thank God I'm Forever Changed.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 10:04:43 PM
|
|
|
upnorthguy
Posts: 39
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
|
Now we are getting to the real crust of the issue. In today's Bible colleges, the the hot thing is the major of "praise and worship which prepares ministers of music to "lead worship", pick the songs, the special music, etc. By and large these Bible universities are teaching that contemporary praise and worship is "the only thing" and pastors are buying into this. Therefore in some churches SG music has no chance because the Worship minister has been taught that P&W is the only thing. Singing "off the wall" stunts any attempt to harmonize, etc. Hymns are out of style. My theory is that if you don't like the music in your church, LEAVE. Some day, the contemporary will fade away and some other style will come in--hopefully SG
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/9/2009 10:59:53 PM
|
|
|
SGEnthusiast
Posts: 581
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
|
Most of the people I know personally don't like SG music but those who have attended SG concerts with me do enjoy the concerts. I wonder if there's anything we as fans can do to help increase a listenership for the music. I realize some people can't stand it but others may be indifferent due to not hearing the right group that caught their attention.
_____________________________
Sony
http://www.wisdomsgate.com
Reminder: It's in the darkest valleys when God's Light can shine the brightest.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/10/2009 12:10:38 AM
|
|
|
kingsman
Posts: 636
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline
|
I was the senior pastor of a mega-church with three Sunday morning services, we'd have a different muscical format in each service. Variety is the spice of life.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/10/2009 7:56:32 AM
|
|
|
robertyork
Posts: 2151
Joined: 3/23/2006
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: kingsman
I was the senior pastor of a mega-church with three Sunday morning services, we'd have a different muscical format in each service. Variety is the spice of life.
A lot of Churches do the same thing have different musical formats for each service. That's is great as long asthe GOSPEL PREACHED stays the same. A lot of these services changes the Message to suit the congregation. There is only one message as far as I'm concerned and that is Jesus died and shed his blood for you and me so that if we have Faith and Believe we are a Child of the King. There are a lot of ministers that don't want to mention the word blood in their sermons or have it mentioned in song.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/10/2009 8:06:46 AM
|
|
|
BSMM
Posts: 6
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: servants
I know all churches are different, but our quartet has been in to several contemporary churches and we have had good luck and sold several cd's while there. Most have booked us back while we are there. These churches have been in NC, SC, Tenn and Va area. We did have one music minister in a big Baptist church tell us that he thought it was a mistake for us to sing there because his church liked praise and worship, but after the service there was so many people that told him they like that type of music that he called us and booked again. Since then I know of 2 big groups that have been there.
And this is to my point, those in leadership were wise enough to be fair and equal and feed all the people not just the ones that "like what I like" Some folks might have even found out they like more than they thought they would, maybe even some young people. That would be a heck of a concept if us christians were more open minded. O.K. I'm back on the sidelines
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/10/2009 10:46:12 AM
|
|
|
kingsman
Posts: 636
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: kingsman
I was the senior pastor of a mega-church with three Sunday morning services, we'd have a different muscical format in each service. Variety is the spice of life.
What a difference ONE LITTLE WORD makes. I've left words out before but in this case it is disasterous. I was trying to offer a hypothetical. What I thought I had written was ...
If I was ...
Never was a pastor let alone a SENIOR pastor.
Mea culpa.
And, Robert, I agree. Same gospel. Same message.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/10/2009 6:40:16 PM
|
|
|
robertyork
Posts: 2151
Joined: 3/23/2006
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: kingsman
quote:
ORIGINAL: kingsman
I was the senior pastor of a mega-church with three Sunday morning services, we'd have a different muscical format in each service. Variety is the spice of life.
What a difference ONE LITTLE WORD makes. I've left words out before but in this case it is disasterous. I was trying to offer a hypothetical. What I thought I had written was ...
If I was ...
Never was a pastor let alone a SENIOR pastor.
Mea culpa.
And, Robert, I agree. Same gospel. Same message.
I was wondering about you being a pastor but I thought I just didn't know that you were. Maybe someday the Lord will call you into that field.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/11/2009 1:41:17 AM
|
|
|
andygood
Posts: 11
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
|
I think its very true that peoples likes/dislikes of Christian music has hindered southern gospel as secular music becomes prediminantly more progressive itself. Even country music is flooded with artists that are not really traditional country.
I agree that music ministers are in a position to greatly promote SG music. There are two problems I see with that. Number one, I would say that it's only a fraction of churches that have true music ministers - people that are talented and experienced enough to do justice to both P&W and SG in the same service. Small to medium sized churches, such as where I serve would be hard pressed to put together a music team that could do that.
The second problem I see with that is that SG is lightyears behind in it's approach to marketing. My church is a musically traditional church with some P&W mixed in. We're a small congregation by most standards - 50 to 100 depending on the time of year. Yet as a small church I would say at least once a month we recieve something in the mail from P&W music houses promoting their music for use in our services - sheet music, sample CDs, catalogs, powerpoint demos, contata program ideas, childrens music kits, etc. I just wonder why SG doesn't do more of this? What would happen if the focus was switched from promoting the artists to promoting the music itself...with a heavy emphasis on the simplicity and directness of it's message?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/11/2009 11:01:08 AM
|
|
|
HigherNote4U
Posts: 110
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
|
The difference is that Praise and Worship music is completly aimed at Worship Leaders to use in their church. How would this help southern gospel groups by just sending songs and sheet music to churches? I see that more hurting the industry than helping, because you're actually taking the "group" out of the music.
quote:
ORIGINAL: andygood
The second problem I see with that is that SG is lightyears behind in it's approach to marketing. My church is a musically traditional church with some P&W mixed in. We're a small congregation by most standards - 50 to 100 depending on the time of year. Yet as a small church I would say at least once a month we recieve something in the mail from P&W music houses promoting their music for use in our services - sheet music, sample CDs, catalogs, powerpoint demos, contata program ideas, childrens music kits, etc. I just wonder why SG doesn't do more of this? What would happen if the focus was switched from promoting the artists to promoting the music itself...with a heavy emphasis on the simplicity and directness of it's message?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/11/2009 11:14:06 AM
|
|
|
HigherNote4U
Posts: 110
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
|
Let me mention this to...last night I went to a southern gospel concert featuring Gold City and the Hoppers in High Point, NC. We get there and it is a ticketed event and is at a very large church. I would say that this church could easily sit 2,000.00 people. The tickets were $15 each. The concert sold out. Keep in mind that this was a thursday night concert.
When we get inside I find out that this church has been putting on a "concert series" featuring all different genres of gospel music. They didn't specify. This concert was for their "southern gospel" night. Again, it sold out. There were young and old people there and this concert went over great.
So my question is what did this church do different that made this concert series such a success? They promoted different genres to the church and the community and allowed the church and community to decide if they enjoyed it or not. They didn't push their own agenda or "likes or dislikes" to the church. They let the people that are "paying the bills" so to speak to make the decision. And again, there were young and old people both enjoying themselves and it was a sold out ticketed event on a traditionally "off" night.
To me this church has it right on track.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/11/2009 12:39:36 PM
|
|
|
kingsman
Posts: 636
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline
|
Thanks for sharing. That's some powerful testimony. Kudos to that church and the Hoppers.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lack of interest..what's the deal? - 9/11/2009 11:37:20 PM
|
|
|
andygood
Posts: 11
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
|
Highernote, I'm afraid you missed my point! I believe the original intent of this OP was what can we do to get more people interested in SG music. My reply is that we need to start putting focus on promoting the music itself, rather than focusig soley on the artists.... For example, the average churchgoer could probably name 50 worhship songs and not 5 contemporary artists' names. That's because the music is promoted rather than the artists. The artists are able to thrive because people are familiar with, and appreciate, their music before they sing a note.
When I mentioned earlier that our church recieves a lot of promotional material from P&W affiliates, I should have specified that we've never received anything that was promoting any particular artist.... Just the music. Some songs, such as "I Can Only Imagine", have entire worship programs based on them - powerpoint lyrics, soundtracks, daily devotionals, Sunday school curriculems, Bible study courses, etc. Imagine if somebody did that with a song like Greater Visions' "Faces"!
I guess my point is that I would love to see Southern Gospel music grow and gain popularity. I just think that we need to move beyond the traditional means of promotion and become proactive by taking the music to the churches. It is very naive to expect the churches to be promoting SG music by booking groups! The industry needs to promote ITSELF and its music TO the churches. Someone earlier in this OP stated that many people enjoy SG once they've actually had a chance to listen to it. The problem is that it's hard to get people to embrace an artist when they don't like, appreciate, or even know of their music. Therefore, if we would put our efforts towards building appreciation for the music, I think the artists would reap the rewards because their music would be in demand!i
< Message edited by andygood -- 9/11/2009 11:54:00 PM >
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
