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The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/7/2009 12:16:46 AM
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RunnerJoel
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I know the scripture says that blaspheming of the Holy Spirit is but where do people get it that suicide is?
RJ
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/7/2009 7:29:29 AM
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conrack50
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This is merely my opinion. Years ago, because I didn't have very much knowledge of the Lord, I believed what others told me. I finally looked it up for myself.
Connie Lou
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/7/2009 9:07:24 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RunnerJoel
I know the scripture says that blaspheming of the Holy Spirit is but where do people get it that suicide is?
RJ
That line of thinking comes from certain groups that feel any unconfessed sin will prevent a trip to Heaven. Since they consideer suicide a sin, and there is no possible way to confess that sin; then those groups consider to be such as you suggested.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/7/2009 9:07:47 AM
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drmark
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Welcome to the Forums, RunnerJoel!
Since suicide results in death and thus the inability to confess and repent, if someone identifies suicide with killing innocent life thus breaking the 6th commandment, then they could logically argue that committing suicide cannot be forgiven since there is no confession or repentance. However, you are correct in calling blasphemy against the Holy Spirit the "unpardonable sin" according to Mark 3:28-29 and the corresponding passage in Matthew 12.
Many Bible scolars and commentators also reference Hebrews 6:4-6 and 1 John 5:16 as additional passages that identify sin that cannot be forgiven. None of these Scriptures specifically relate to suicide in my opinion.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/7/2009 2:01:01 PM
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raoooul
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Welcome to the Forums, RunnerJoel!
>Since suicide results in death and thus the inability to confess and repent,
raoul: But here in lies the question. If after trying to commit suicide one then repents before they die. Would they still be held guilty by G-d ?
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/7/2009 3:03:56 PM
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drmark
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quote:
raoul: But here in lies the question. If after trying to commit suicide one then repents before they die. Would they still be held guilty by G-d ? God knows everyone's heart, so it's really not my call, Raoul.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/7/2009 5:03:01 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Moving from The Bible to Salvation Issues.
Thanks!
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/9/2009 11:50:13 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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The Catholic view of suicide
Suicide—Suicide is murder of the self. It is contrary to the love of God, self, family, friends and neighbors (CCC 2281). It is of especially grave nature, if it is intended to set an example for others to follow. Voluntary cooperation in a suicide is also contrary to the moral law. However, the responsibility of and gravity of suicide can be diminished in the cases of grave psychological disturbances, anguish, grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture. But this does not make it morally permissible, and it is the judgement of God that will measure the gravity or responsibility of the sin.
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/10/2009 3:24:29 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: RunnerJoel
I know the scripture says that blaspheming of the Holy Spirit is but where do people get it that suicide is?
RJ
That line of thinking comes from certain groups that feel any unconfessed sin will prevent a trip to Heaven. Since they consideer suicide a sin, and there is no possible way to confess that sin; then those groups consider to be such as you suggested.
Thanks
RC
That's the thinking where it comes from but it also is a definite misuse of scripture because Jesus' description of blapheming of the Holy Spirit is an entirely different thing and not what our Savior was talking about.
Anytime you hear anyone call suicide blaspheming against the Holy Spirit you will know they get their theology from popular sayings from men and not entirely from scripture.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/10/2009 5:33:21 PM
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GodsMusic
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Suicide is murder, and according to scripture "ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/10/2009 7:57:51 PM
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turtleman
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Suicide can be called murder of oneself and, scripture does say no murderer shall have part with him. However, murder can be forgiven as can suicide. Rational thought says people will act in their own or loved ones best interest. Since suicide is not a rational act people who commit suicide are not in their right mind. If they ask for forgiveness before commiting suicide it can be forgiven. This is not to condoning suicide only explaining why it occurs and how it could be forgiven.
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just a few simple thoughts
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/11/2009 8:40:22 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Suicide is murder Murder is the taking of innocent life. How does someone killing themself after murdering innocent others qualify as murder?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/11/2009 8:55:35 AM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
Suicide is murder, and according to scripture "ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
Whether or not your view of that is correct, it is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit according to Jesus' explanation, which I prefer to take on the matter.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/11/2009 7:08:31 PM
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bob97
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quote:
Suicide is murder, and according to scripture "ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
A person that has accepted Jesus Christ and is indwell by the Holy Spirit of God, takes his own life...do you mean to say that he has forfeited his salvation?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 3/12/2009 5:26:09 PM
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GodsMusic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
Suicide is murder, and according to scripture "ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
Whether or not your view of that is correct, it is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit according to Jesus' explanation, which I prefer to take on the matter.
...and I agree with you on that. I never said it was.
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/23/2009 11:42:27 PM
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prolifepj
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Wake up thread!
I was about to start a new thread on this after requesting permission from Kath, but she thought I might find one already open and she's right- this one obviously is!
I've been studying this lately- I've also heard people..and some ministers say that suicide will prevent one from entering into heaven. That thinking has never set well with me, but I have no scripture backing for or against it. Like noted above, the only sin I see that is unpardonable is blasphemy of the HSpirit.
And I only found a few suicide cases mentioned in scripture that I could see.
Anyone have scripture backing for either side?
I'm looking for chapter and verse.
_____________________________
Hashivenu Adonai elecha vena shuvah
Chadesh, chadesh ya meinu
chadesh yameinu kekedem
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/24/2009 12:49:54 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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That is a tough subject, Prolife!
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While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/24/2009 4:41:36 AM
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prolifepj
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Yes it is and a sensitive one also- which is why I asked before moving ahead. Another thread was closed after a lot of overheated ides with very little backing. I'll explain why I ask.
I used to work for a ministry and would often take calls late in the evenings with our volunteers. One such was on a call where she was asked this questioon of whether or not a person in their family went to heaven because of suicide. She answered matter-of-factly, "Of course not!" Her answer did not sit well with me and she couldn't tell me why, other than that's what she had always heard
I knew immediately that I needed to come up with more strict guidelines for that type of call for our volunteers, but I also wanted to back my reasoning with "It Is Written" kind of proof and I'm STILL looking for it.
_____________________________
Hashivenu Adonai elecha vena shuvah
Chadesh, chadesh ya meinu
chadesh yameinu kekedem
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/24/2009 5:57:56 AM
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singpeace
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My brother committed suicide after battling a mental illness for years. Diagnosed several times.
He was a Christian, helped feed the homeless, gave all the time, had a heart of gold, and even took a homeless man home with him one evening, gave the man a hot bath, a hot meal, and let him sleep in his own bed. Shortly after that, he took his own life.
He was terrified of going to hell if he killed himself, yet, he so wanted to die and be rid of his torment. Concentrating on scriptures had become increasingly difficult for him. So after he died, we found several typed sheets of paper around his room with the scripture depicting the Good Samaritan. The parable was in response to a young man's question, "how do i get to heaven?"
In JIm's way, he satisfied his fear so that he could go home. I know he is in heaven. After the autopsy, we found out that a portion of his frontal lobe (where reasoning is) was dead. Not visible on the CT scans.
Be careful to judge others if they decide to go on home early.
31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
_____________________________
Psalm 123:1 Unto You do I lift up my eyes, O You Who are enthroned in heaven.
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/24/2009 6:04:53 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
Yes it is and a sensitive one also- which is why I asked before moving ahead. Another thread was closed after a lot of overheated ides with very little backing. I'll explain why I ask.
I used to work for a ministry and would often take calls late in the evenings with our volunteers. One such was on a call where she was asked this questioon of whether or not a person in their family went to heaven because of suicide. She answered matter-of-factly, "Of course not!" Her answer did not sit well with me and she couldn't tell me why, other than that's what she had always heard
I knew immediately that I needed to come up with more strict guidelines for that type of call for our volunteers, but I also wanted to back my reasoning with "It Is Written" kind of proof and I'm STILL looking for it.
I'm thinking here. As people are picking and choosing sins that keep people out of heaven, they are ignoring the message of the Gospel. Forgiveness and Grace. There is one unpardonable sin, as has been said blasphemy Of the Holy Spirit. The penalty for all sin is death-if we are believer's that penalty has been paid for us. That is Grace.
We will all die with sin unconfessed in our life. Some sin, we don't even know it is sin, some we forget. Now if we had to rely on ourselves to confess every sin, we would all be in hell.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't confess our sins, I'm only making a point. For believer's, when Jesus said, "It is finished" He meant it.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/24/2009 8:04:15 AM
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drmark
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quote:
.and some ministers say that suicide will prevent one from entering into heaven. Unrepentant sin prevents anyone from entering heaven. If a person kills her/himself instantly, there would be no opportunity for repentance, but if they had even a moment of godly sorrow in death, would that not be enough? Sin is the willful disobedience of God's known Will. Does everyone who commits suicide know they are deliberately disobeying God or is everyone accountable due to physical or emotional distress over which they have no control? Only God knows the heart which is why I believe their is no "blanket answer" that covers every instance of suicide.
Personally, I think it would be a rare situation where those of us who knew the suicide victim should not carefully examine our lives for possible sin in failing to notice or care for someone we knew whom we may have allowed to get to such a low point in their life without our compassionate intervention. Something for all of us to consider... 
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/24/2009 8:18:13 AM
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EsonTheSearcher
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RunnerJoel
I know the scripture says that blaspheming of the Holy Spirit is but where do people get it that suicide is?
RJ
I don't know; I have often wondered that myself! This is a thread somewhere about this very topic. The verse,
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
This verse clearly defines the "unpardonable sin". But, as you have mentioned, people overlook the last half of it...and I don't know why.
But it would not be the only verse done like that.
The only thing I can come up with would be this: if you are dead, you can't ask forgiveness! But there again, the verse does not state that.
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/24/2009 10:09:13 AM
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drmark
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quote:
DrMark, show me where this is in scripture? If what you say is true, then the cross means nothing. The cross is our only hope! Jesus died so that we wouldn't have to. Sorry, dd, there is an unending thread to "debate" unlimited Atonement and conditional election and this is not it! I stand by my statement that unrepentant sinners do not make it to Heaven.
quote:
However, there very well could be unrepentant sin in a believer's life, simply because they do not know that it is sin. Again dd, there are several threads that discuss the definition of sin, properly so called. I believe Scripture is clear that willful deliberate sin is always known and that is the sin for which we are held accountable by God.
quote:
They may have unrepentant sin and just not know it. If they died unexpectedly, you are saying that they are damned for eternity! That's why I'm prayed up, packed up, and ready to go! How about you?
quote:
The Bible does not tell us this. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of Jesus shall be saved". Let's take the Bible as the Word of God and believe it! Amen! The Bible also says that not all those who says to Him "Lord, Lord" will enter Heaven. Looks like there's a little more to salvation than you seem to imply!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: The "Unpardonable Sin" - 9/24/2009 10:46:49 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Sin is the willful disobedience of God's known Will. Does everyone who commits suicide know they are deliberately disobeying God or is everyone accountable due to physical or emotional distress over which they have no control? Only God knows the heart which is why I believe their is no "blanket answer" that covers every instance of suicide.
Prolife - Drmark said it great!
Pax,
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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