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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 2:15:44 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
If you see the connection between a child and their parent as non-relational, then how exactly would you define relational? I certainly do not see the parent/child connection as non-relational, just as I do not see the Triune God/ created Believer connection as non-relational. What are you getting at?
quote:
Can you really produce agape love? Or is it God who produces that love in you, so that you can then share His love with others? Are you the vine, or are you the branch? Yes, I can and must produce agape love, but only with the Love of Christ abiding fully in me. There is no other meaningful way to interpret 1 John 4:7-21. The Spirit-filled Christian cannot sit around and let God do all the work, URF! There are places to go, holy behaviors to practice, and people to love - that is the true definition of Christian religion, just like Jesus did it!
We have reached that inevitable impasse. I will let your statement speak for itself my friend.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 3:10:16 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
I would say this is a very good description of religion, but not of Christianity.
If you would, please, tell me in detail what in my description is contrary to Christianity?
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 3:15:30 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
I would say my relationship with Jesus is just that---a relationship that contradicts 'facts'. Truth does that.
What "facts" are you saying are contradicted? I was talking about the truths given to us in scripture, the facts of what God has declared about Himself. Those facts cannot be contradicted while still following Christ.
quote:
And that love, His love, is not the worldly 'love', but God love as scripture shows us.
Yes, God's love as scripture shows us. I submit that we learn about God and how to love as He loves, primarily by study of scripture (albeit only when that study is done through the Holy Spirit).
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 4:52:09 PM
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makarizo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
I consider Christianity a religion.
I am glad that there is an actual dictionary definition of what the word religion means.
But unfortunately the word religion has come to mean something entirely different to masses of hurting people out there who so desperately need the Love of Christ.
I am not sure what the average non believer thinks the word means, but something like "i wouldn't be good enough to be saved" or " a little bit superior to the rest of the human race"....... something like that,
Christianity to a bible reading/ believing, God fearing believer is indeed a religion, to those who understand what that means.
to the many God believing lazy boy 'Christians', it is (i think) nothing more than an ideal or moralistic lifestyle that fits into some agenda.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 6:19:56 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
I would say this is a very good description of religion, but not of Christianity.
If you would, please, tell me in detail what in my description is contrary to Christianity?
Fair enough.
It is all contrary to Christianity. Your focus is on you and what you need to do in order for you to achieve whatever it is you believe God wants you to achieve. It is all about you doing or not doing, you achieving, you studying, you learning, you seeking, you following, you living. Those are your words, not mine.
That is religion...that is not Christianity. Religion always results in a preoccupation with self, and with what you are doing or not doing. But, Christianity is all about Christ and what He is doing and what He wants to do in and through you. Christianity is a preoccupation with Christ...who now is your life.
"These things you are focused on are but a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." (Col 2:17)
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 6:25:23 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
I consider Christianity a religion.
I am glad that there is an actual dictionary definition of what the word religion means.
But unfortunately the word religion has come to mean something entirely different to masses of hurting people out there who so desperately need the Love of Christ.
I am not sure what the average non believer thinks the word means, but something like "i wouldn't be good enough to be saved" or " a little bit superior to the rest of the human race"....... something like that,
Christianity to a bible reading/ believing, God fearing believer is indeed a religion, to those who understand what that means.
to the many God believing lazy boy 'Christians', it is (i think) nothing more than an ideal or moralistic lifestyle that fits into some agenda.
With all due respect to Mr. Webster...the most accepted etymological derivation of the English word "religion" recognizes the root of the word in the Latin word religare, which means "to bind again" or "to tie back."
To which I would hope all bible reading/ believing, God fearing believers would indeed understand what that means.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 6:32:36 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
Tell me why Christianity is not a religion or why it is.
Christianity cannot be a religion because in essence Christianity is Christ, and the Christian is the one with "CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY". Thus it is the relationship of the children of God to their Father and to their Redeemer.
Christ is not only Lord and Savior, but He Himself is our salvation, our redemption, our righteousnesss, our peace, our joy, our strength, our life, our eternal life, our resurrection, and our eternal perfection. Jesus said, "I am the Vine, ye are the branches... without me ye can do nothing" (Jn. 14:5). Which means that there is no Christian or Christianity without the indwelling Christ.
It is the Person -- the Lord Jesus Christ -- and His perfect finished work of redemption that constitutes Christianity. It is Christ working in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure that consists of the Christian life. Therefore Christianity cannot be a religion.
The Greek word for religion is threskeia which means religion in its external aspects, and in particulary the ceremonial service of religion as applied to the Jews. The Greek word deisidaimonia is closer to superstition than to religion.
While James says that pure religion is to visit the fatherless and the widows and to keep oneself unspotted from the world, this is only one aspect of Christianity, and not the sum total of Christianity.
Unfortunately, many so-called Christians have indeed made Christianity a religion (rites and rituals) instead of a living relationship with the living God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 8:56:08 PM
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makarizo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
the most accepted etymological derivation of the English word "religion"..........
Peace
ROFL
I read James 1:27....-in English
and looking at the strongs number, 'ceremonial observance',
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 11:28:58 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1817
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
Tell me why Christianity is not a religion or why it is.
Christianity cannot be a religion because in essence Christianity is Christ, and the Christian is the one with "CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY". Thus it is the relationship of the children of God to their Father and to their Redeemer.
Christ is not only Lord and Savior, but He Himself is our salvation, our redemption, our righteousnesss, our peace, our joy, our strength, our life, our eternal life, our resurrection, and our eternal perfection. Jesus said, "I am the Vine, ye are the branches... without me ye can do nothing" (Jn. 14:5). Which means that there is no Christian or Christianity without the indwelling Christ.
It is the Person -- the Lord Jesus Christ -- and His perfect finished work of redemption that constitutes Christianity. It is Christ working in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure that consists of the Christian life. Therefore Christianity cannot be a religion.
The Greek word for religion is threskeia which means religion in its external aspects, and in particulary the ceremonial service of religion as applied to the Jews. The Greek word deisidaimonia is closer to superstition than to religion.
While James says that pure religion is to visit the fatherless and the widows and to keep oneself unspotted from the world, this is only one aspect of Christianity, and not the sum total of Christianity.
Unfortunately, many so-called Christians have indeed made Christianity a religion (rites and rituals) instead of a living relationship with the living God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen to what Ezra says as well.  Liveloved
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 11:58:53 PM
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ot4christ
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quote:
"It's not a religion; it's a relationship" is another Christianese catch-phrase that makes the non-Christians roll their eyes. It makes this Christian roll his eyes too. I do visitation and preach/teach at a nursing home and out of over a hundred in our congregation, I often go alone, even though it's posted in our weekly bulletin. No religion is right. Not even the pure and undefiled kind spoken of by James. "Personal relationship" is right as well, as most people keep the relationship "personal" instead of sharing the Love. Good works are not done to become or remain a Christian but because one is compelled to do good works by God who works in and through us.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/28/2008 2:04:12 AM
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WanderingLamb
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There is a religion of Christianity, otherwise we would not have people in Christian churches, who call themselves Christians, yet do not know Christ. These people are part of the Christian religion.
I did a search and only found a few references to "religion" in the bible. Two refer to "looking after orphans and widows" (1 Timothy 5:4; James 1:27) and one refers to keeping a tight rein on your tongue (James 1:26) I come away from reading these with the impression that God is telling us that life is not about religion but about relationships. But that doesn't stop people from making a religion out of God's revelation and His way of salvation.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/28/2008 9:01:57 AM
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drmark
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quote:
"Personal relationship" is right as well, as most people keep the relationship "personal" instead of sharing the Love. I think you meant to type "Personal relationship" is not right as well...", ot4christ, if I'm following your otherwise excellent post.
quote:
Good works are not done to become or remain a Christian but because one is compelled to do good works by God who works in and through us. Exactly right, ot4christ! The religion of Christianity is worthless without the relationship of Christianity empowering us. And if we practice no religion while claiming this mystical personal relationship, then our faith is worthless!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/28/2008 9:55:24 AM
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kingdust
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
"Personal relationship" is right as well, as most people keep the relationship "personal" instead of sharing the Love. I think you meant to type "Personal relationship" is not right as well...", ot4christ, if I'm following your otherwise excellent post.
My take is this; if personal relationship is only between a person and God, not also between people, it is nor right.
Here, we are talking about religion Vs relationship, but it seems like the relationship in not fully expanded from personal relationship with God to people, especially when people have different ideas than 'mine'.
Just because I have different ideas, say, different denomination, theology, or race, i am kind of excluded from the personal relationship with God and people?
Relationship with God and people of my taste only but not with 'different' people, different in many ways?
quote:
Exactly right, ot4christ! The religion of Christianity is worthless without the relationship of Christianity empowering us. And if we practice no religion while claiming this mystical personal relationship, then our faith is worthless!
Dr. Mark, here you put religion and relationship together without much friction or awkwardness, only to me.
Yes, without relationship with the true God, a religion can only a religion.
Only the true relationship with God, a religion can be a true religion, reaching out to fella believers with open arms to embrace each other just because of the name of God.
Believe or not, all other religions have some sort of relationship among believers, and their gods spiritually speaking.
Relationship is not only for Christianity.
Even gangs have their tight relationship in their worship of violence.
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 1/25/2009 7:56:28 AM
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Aliosias
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Religion is the antithesis of the kingdom of God. And the kingdom--the realm of the King's domain--is what every man, woman, and child longs for deep within their hearts. Religion creates appetites it cannot fulfill. By nature it carries a value for form without power; information without experience. It makes outward appearance a priority over the issues of the heart. For this reason religion does not provide an opportunity to actually know God, and it is therefore cruel, powerless, and boring.
No, "true" Christianity is not a religion.
< Message edited by Aliosias -- 1/26/2009 5:35:02 AM >
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 1/25/2009 8:10:53 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Religion is the antithesis of the kingdom of God. Then how do you interpret James 1:27?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 1/25/2009 9:03:52 AM
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Aliosias
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Since the Epistle of James was written to the church the words he uses, "Pure religion" has to be referring to "Christianity" (a word that had not come into usuage at that time) and not pharisaical religion (form without power).
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 1/25/2009 5:51:21 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Since the Epistle of James was written to the church the words he uses, "Pure religion" has to be referring to "Christianity" (a word that had not come into usuage at that time) and not pharisaical religion (form without power). Exactly, so Christianity is religion of the purest form when practiced in, with, and through the power of the Holy Spirit! There's no "antithesis of the Kingdom" at all when we are practicing religion in pure relationship with Christ.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 1/26/2009 5:53:37 AM
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Gazingstock
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Brothers and Sisters - Both views are correct. Religion simply put = "World View" -In the broadest sense, everyone has a religion.
-About "religious rituals" we know the apostle Peter was corrected by God for clinging to old testament dietary laws. So if you feel like you might practice "religious rituals" once in a while, you are at least in good company. Peter was still unlearning relgion in the middle of a powerful relationship.
So we can have relationship and religion, but let our religion be this:
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. -Mar 12:29
_____________________________
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual [ones]. -1Cr 2:13
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 1/26/2009 10:48:54 PM
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gmc4Jesus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
I consider Christianity a religion.
Mosquito, you got it right. However, in context of the original question, we have to ask where the person is coming from.
Many people reject "religion" because too many Christians are not building a relationship with Jesus Christ, but are merely practicing a bunch of religious rituals or beliefs without considering what they really mean.
I prefer a relationship, but in light of the above definition, it is also my religion. I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, my Lord and Savior. He died for my sins so I could use my life to live for Him. That is my "religion." The best part is that it is also my "relationship."
In light of the above definition, athiests, homosexual advocates and those who seek to silence our freedom to speak aobut our beliefs are also practicing a religion. Their's is the religion of anti-Christianity (anti-christs - See John 2:18, 22; 4:3). Their's has nothing to do with believing in God, but more to do with silencing Christians. Enough, that is probably another thread somewhere else.
Meanwhile, don't deny your religion, but build it into a passionate, personal and powerful relationship with Jesus Christ.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 1/28/2009 1:49:24 PM
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kingdust
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Meanwhile, don't deny your religion, but build it into a passionate, personal and powerful relationship with Jesus Christ.
A good summary!
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 1/28/2009 3:13:03 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Meanwhile, don't deny your religion, but build it into a passionate, personal and powerful relationship with Jesus Christ. I would prefer to take my passionate, personal and powerful relationship with Jesus Christ and build it into a relevant, servant-oriented, love-based religion!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 9/4/2009 12:42:07 AM
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WanderingLamb
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from James 1:
quote:
22.Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
23.Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror
24.and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
25.But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does.
26.If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
27.Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.[/quote]
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 9/8/2009 12:52:09 PM
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JesusIsCool
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Well I personally think that it is both because like a lot of people said it is a true direct relationship with God but it is also a religion because we worship him everyday.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 9/26/2009 2:26:24 PM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 546
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quote:
Christianity is a personal relationship with God
Religion/ous can be anything.
Yes. I have met Harley-Davidson owners(you know, the "no rice burners" thing), sports fans, and political devotees, from both sides of the aisle, who are more religous, than I can ever hope to be.
_____________________________
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." -Ronald Reagan
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 9/27/2009 9:08:16 PM
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makarizo
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people seem to give a lot more credit to that word than I do a "christianity" observation that I make (not dictionary meaning but as it is perceived and lived out by people I see)
is that it is a sweeping generalization used by people who believe in a higher power and choose to call it christianity. When someone tells me they are a christian it means almost nothing to me other than just words.
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