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RE: Three Tenors - 1/14/2008 12:48:55 AM
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buckson
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Thank you!
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/14/2008 11:53:04 AM
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tenor247
Posts: 153
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quote:
WARNING:If you have no sense of humor, please don't read this post
I apologize for my statement about Ernie, and we all are entitled to our opinions. I personally believe that when you talk about the best tenors past or present in Southern Gospel, he's not even in the top 20. But that is just my opinion, and I don't hold it against anyone for liking Ernie. They just need some good hearing aids
Your point about him singing it lower and lower every time is not only an easy one to notice but a fact.
I dont blame anyone for liking Ernie, but i have to agree hes not even in the top 20 of all time good ones. Good Tenor, but not great. IMO. Your supporting Cast has a lot to do with how you sound, and George, Glenn, Scott, and Roger could even make ME sound good......
as far the group Ernie is with today, they are good too, but the stacked vocals (recorded in studio) are at such a High Level, it makes things sound better than they are. Not saying they arent good, just restating what the above guy said.
Here's my Three
Brian Free, Jay Parrack, Steve Ladd
David Sutton, Jeremy Peace, Eric Phillips
Rosie Rosell, Johnny Parrack, Ernie Phillips
(there are more, i just stopped at what i think are 3 good concerts)
< Message edited by tenor247 -- 1/14/2008 12:00:16 PM >
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/14/2008 1:11:11 PM
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tenor247
Posts: 153
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quote:
He recorded versions in F-sharp as early as 1992/93 and as recently as 2007. He wasn't singing an octave lower, was he?
No it wasnt an octave lower...you know that...
Ernie just dont rank high my list...Its ok Daniel!!! hes still a good tenor.... just higher on your list than he is on mine.
_____________________________
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/14/2008 8:11:04 PM
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tenor247
Posts: 153
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quote:
think he found that F-sharp was better for his voice within 6-12 months of joining the Cathedrals, and has stuck to that key ever since.
....know what that means???
The original recording...in the "original" key....was STUDIO MAGIC...he didnt hit it consistently so he had to lower the key
Lowering cause its better for your voice means you cant hit the note to start with. Doesnt mean he isnt a good singer or not a solid tenor...just call it what it is...its ok!!!
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/14/2008 9:00:32 PM
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bigboytenor
Posts: 517
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From: Webb City, MO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quartetguru
I will take Real tenors over the falsetto tenor garbage that is sweeping this music today.
No, I am not a fan of Ernie Haase but he is a real tenor.
I am glad the Kingsmen have a real tenor again. Harold Reid reminds me of the Kingsmen tenors of old. Johnny Parack, Ernie Phillips. When Jerry Martin left to join The Dove Brothers, I was heart-broken.
Derrick Boyd (Carolina Boys) and then Jeremy Peace both were totally falsetto singers. Usually meaning they seem to have no stopping point on their range, but if the song starts too low, they have to sing in their "real voice". And that class, is not a "tenor voice."
I'm not a falsetto fan either. Make sure you're not confusing head voice with falsetto. There's a big difference. Also, there is a way to extend the head voice to a seemingly unending range. Obviously it stops at some point, but it will go much higher than most if you know what you're doing. BTW, Ernie Phillips and Johnny Parrack both used falsetto at times.
_____________________________
Jesus said that in the last days there would be earthquakes, pestilence, distress of nations, famine, signs in the sky, wars and rumors of wars. Sound familiar? Are you ready?
Daryl
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/14/2008 9:04:26 PM
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Qtman
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I have never heard a tenor that did not use a falsetto at some time or another. Not all the time but on some notes.
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/14/2008 9:08:42 PM
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bigboytenor
Posts: 517
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Couldn't agree more, qtman. You hit the nail right on the head. On one of the Gaither videos Jack Clark is reading from a SG dictionary and refers to falsetto as "a vocal device used by tired tenors . . ." I think that's not far from the truth. It's a wonderful mechanism to protect your voice on those "off" vocal days, especially if you know how to use it.
_____________________________
Jesus said that in the last days there would be earthquakes, pestilence, distress of nations, famine, signs in the sky, wars and rumors of wars. Sound familiar? Are you ready?
Daryl
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/14/2008 9:27:39 PM
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danielmount
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tenor247
quote:
think he found that F-sharp was better for his voice within 6-12 months of joining the Cathedrals, and has stuck to that key ever since.
....know what that means???
The original recording...in the "original" key....was STUDIO MAGIC...he didnt hit it consistently so he had to lower the key
Lowering cause its better for your voice means you cant hit the note to start with. Doesnt mean he isnt a good singer or not a solid tenor...just call it what it is...its ok!!!
I agree. Keying it in G didn't work for his voice.
I would observe that singers don't always pick the precise keys of songs on which they're featured. Sometimes the producer or the group manager picks the key, based on other criteria.
However, once he started doing it live with them every night, it didn't take them longer to move it down a half-step.
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/19/2008 8:20:32 PM
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jt1
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What about Brian Free, Steve Ladd and Thomas Griffin
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/19/2008 8:32:42 PM
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bigboytenor
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Who is Thomas Griffin the tenor for?
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Jesus said that in the last days there would be earthquakes, pestilence, distress of nations, famine, signs in the sky, wars and rumors of wars. Sound familiar? Are you ready?
Daryl
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/19/2008 8:35:39 PM
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bigboytenor
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Are you talking about Thomas Griffin from Spoken 4? If so, he wouldn't make my list.
BTW, jt1, can I assumed jt are your initials? As in J. C. T.? First name Jon?
_____________________________
Jesus said that in the last days there would be earthquakes, pestilence, distress of nations, famine, signs in the sky, wars and rumors of wars. Sound familiar? Are you ready?
Daryl
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/19/2008 8:49:40 PM
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BassSingerSwain
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From: Bedford, VA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quartetguru
I will take Real tenors over the falsetto tenor garbage that is sweeping this music today.
No, I am not a fan of Ernie Haase but he is a real tenor.
I am glad the Kingsmen have a real tenor again. Harold Reid reminds me of the Kingsmen tenors of old. Johnny Parack, Ernie Phillips. When Jerry Martin left to join The Dove Brothers, I was heart-broken.
Derrick Boyd (Carolina Boys) and then Jeremy Peace both were totally falsetto singers. Usually meaning they seem to have no stopping point on their range, but if the song starts too low, they have to sing in their "real voice". And that class, is not a "tenor voice."
Ah, but his delivery on "I Can Pray" was outstanding; better than his Kingsmen stuff, IMHO. Can't wait to get my hands on the new Dove Brother's project to see whether he delivers some more awesome stuff, which I'm sure he will! 
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/19/2008 8:59:37 PM
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jt1
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Big Boy dont assume anything...No my name is not jon...my name is Jason and I happen to think a lot of Thomas Griffin's singing voice. I have nothing to do with the group Skoken 4...as a matter of fact I have never heard him sing with that group but one time and that was only one song...so no your assumption was wrong...
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/19/2008 10:12:23 PM
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JeremyPeace
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And who might you be, professor guru? To set your record straight, I NEVER once swapped over to sing in any other voice just to sing the lower notes... I utilized falsetto if I were sick, take any NQC video I did, and you will hear falsetto...by the end of the week, my voice was shot... but it really eerks me when you decide to hide behind false names and try and present facts on something you may know nothing about... What I utilize is called a 'head voice'. Being clasically trained, You learn that males have four registers...Chest voice, Middle voice, Head voice, and Falsetto... now, that class, is the truth! Oh, by the way my friend, Johnny and Ernie both, well they sing head voice as well... just because you may not like the tone or style of someones voice, doesn't give you the right to discredit them as a singer...
Now, the Kingsmen required a slightly different tone from me, so it may have seemed thinner, or airy, but I have been able to utilize more tone with my new group, The Old Paths...check out our site and listen to the clips...I think you will hear a difference....
www.theoldpathsonline.com
I have wanted to step on that soap box for ages, and now that I have...oh, and I don't expect this to turn into a know it all battle...I know how I use my voice, and what to do to present different tones....you my friend, only have a perception of it...I have presented the facts to you all, so now you know my technique....I will not comment again on this issue...
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/19/2008 10:22:19 PM
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jt1
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Jeremy...just for the record I think you do a great job...we all have different styles of singing...some people however do not understand...
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/19/2008 10:42:45 PM
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bigboytenor
Posts: 517
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From: Webb City, MO
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Jeremy, I've never heard you live so I can't comment on your singing. However, this is a place where we can post our opinions. If someone doesn't care for your sound and back it up with their reasons, then it's simply his/her opinion. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, just an opinion.
BTW, where did you receive your classical training? I'm getting ready to start on a DMA in either vocal performance or vocal pedagogy. I've sung a ton of classical/opera and studied some of the greatest classical tenors of the recorded era. I'd love to know some of your classical history.
_____________________________
Jesus said that in the last days there would be earthquakes, pestilence, distress of nations, famine, signs in the sky, wars and rumors of wars. Sound familiar? Are you ready?
Daryl
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/20/2008 6:50:47 AM
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danielmount
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From: Ohio
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JeremyPeace
And who might you be, professor guru? To set your record straight, I NEVER once swapped over to sing in any other voice just to sing the lower notes... I utilized falsetto if I were sick, take any NQC video I did, and you will hear falsetto...by the end of the week, my voice was shot... but it really eerks me when you decide to hide behind false names and try and present facts on something you may know nothing about... What I utilize is called a 'head voice'. Being clasically trained, You learn that males have four registers...Chest voice, Middle voice, Head voice, and Falsetto... now, that class, is the truth! Oh, by the way my friend, Johnny and Ernie both, well they sing head voice as well... just because you may not like the tone or style of someones voice, doesn't give you the right to discredit them as a singer...
Now, the Kingsmen required a slightly different tone from me, so it may have seemed thinner, or airy, but I have been able to utilize more tone with my new group, The Old Paths...check out our site and listen to the clips...I think you will hear a difference....
www.theoldpathsonline.com
I do hear a difference, and I am amazed at how versatile you are!
I don't know if bigboytenor has any of your Kingsmen projects, but I have some / most of them (not quite sure which), and I like what I'm hearing now. 
(Of course, I liked what I was hearing then, too; I'm able to enjoy a wide range of tenor singing. That's how Eric Phillips and Larry Ford both end up in my top five favorite tenors!)
A question (for anyone): Do operatic tenors like Bobby Clark and Steve Green and Irish tenors like Larry Ford use any head voice? Or is it just that their middle voice range is genetically higher than the rest of ours? (By the way, I've heard Larry Ford flip into head voice on occasion--take the ending of "Little is Much" on his Homecoming Favorites CD--but I'm speaking of ordinary instances.)
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/20/2008 10:43:29 AM
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BattleScarred
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OK...changing back to the original question now...
My three picks would be Steve Ladd, Jay Parrack, and Jerry Martin.
To me Steve and Jerry have the best quality voice, but Jay was still the ultimate "stage" tenor. He was fun to watch and got the crowd on it's feet night after night. Wow!!! I'd like to see him again.
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/21/2008 1:43:54 AM
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bigboytenor
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In response to DM's post, yes, classically trained tenors do use their head voice. Keep in mind, head voice is not falsetto. For most tenors, the shift (or passaggio in Italian) to head voice is typically somewhere between Eb and F# above middle C. Often an operatic tenor will blend chest and head voice to give more presence. They will also, on occasion, sing in a head voice/falsetto mixed voice. Pavarotti is a prime example of one who mixed head/chest very well. His high Cs would ring like crazy with a lot of presence.
Classical singing is really a different animal than SG. In a lot of classical, especially opera, the singer has to project over an orchestra that may be over 100 members strong. That's why you have different types of soprano, mezzo soprano, contralto, tenor, baritone and bass voices.
Speaking of tenors: One who would sing something like Wagner, would not typically sing Rossini, Mozart or Donizetti. There are a number of tenor classifications that exist. I purposely didn't list what the number is because that number differs depending on from whom you get your list. The Italians list a given number, but the Germans list a different one.
I personally lean more toward a tenor leggiero. That is a lighter voice that would sing high, rapidly moving works like Rossini, Bellini, Donizetti or Mozart. Juan Diego Florez is a tenor singing today who would fall into this classification.
A lyric tenor, which is what Pavarotti was, would sing operas by people like Puccini, Verdi, etc.
There are other types, such as the German Heldentenor, who would sing Wagner. This type of tenor typically tops out around A or Bb above middle C, but has a much larger and heavier voice than the types mentioned above. There's a tenor from Canada singing today, Ben Heppner, he sings Heldentenor roles.
Just a little info on classical tenor voices. Believe me, there's a lot more, but I'll spare you.
< Message edited by bigboytenor -- 1/21/2008 1:49:56 AM >
_____________________________
Jesus said that in the last days there would be earthquakes, pestilence, distress of nations, famine, signs in the sky, wars and rumors of wars. Sound familiar? Are you ready?
Daryl
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/21/2008 6:57:51 PM
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bigboytenor
Posts: 517
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DM, here's a bit more indepth info from wikipedia. I don't consider that site to be terribly reliable, but I've read this information in a number of textbooks on vocal pedagogy.
Leggiero tenor
The male equivalent of a lyric coloratura, this voice is light and very agile, capable of coloratura and able to sing notes above the tenor C. It is the highest tenor voice and is sometimes referred to as "tenore di grazia" or "light-lyric tenor". This voice is utilized frequently in the operas of Mozart, Rossini, Donizetti and Bellini, French comic operas and the highest Baroque repertoire for tenors.
Singers include Juan Diego Flórez, Fritz Wunderlich, John Aler, Rockwell Blake, William Matteuzzi
Count Almaviva (The Barber of Seville)
Arturo (I puritani)
Belmonte (The Abduction from the Seraglio)
Don Ottavio (Don Giovanni)
Ferrando (Cosi fan tutte)
Gérald (Lakmé)
Nemorino (L'elisir d'amore)
Chapelou (Le postillon de Lonjumeau)
Ramiro (La Cenerentola)
Tonio (La fille du régiment)
Lyric tenor
A graceful and brilliant tenor voice that is strong but not heavy.
Singers include Luciano Pavarotti, José Carreras, Roberto Alagna, and Marcelo Álvarez.
Alfredo (La traviata)
David (Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg)
Duke of Mantua (Rigoletto)
Edgardo (Lucia di Lammermoor)
Elvino (La sonnambula)
Faust (Faust)
Hoffmann (The Tales of Hoffmann)
Idomeneo (Idomeneo)
Lensky (Eugene Onegin)
Rodolfo (La bohème)
Roméo (Roméo et Juliette)
Tamino (Die Zauberflöte)
Werther (Werther)
Wilhelm Meister (Mignon)
Spinto tenor
A spinto tenor has a heavier and more dramatic quality to the voice than a lyric tenor, but is not as heavy and dramatic as a dramatic tenor. The voice has a more lyrical quality to it than a dramatic tenor.
Singers include Enrico Caruso, Carlo Bergonzi
Alvaro (Forza del destino)
Andrea Chénier (Andrea Chénier)
Canio (Pagliacci)
Don Carlos (Don Carlos)
Don José (Carmen)
Erik (Der fliegende Holländer)
Ernani (Ernani)
Manrico (Il trovatore)
Mario Cavaradossi (Tosca)
Maurizio (Adriana Lecouvreur)
Pinkerton (Madame Butterfly)
Riccardo (Un ballo in maschera)
Turiddu (Cavalleria rusticana)
Dramatic tenor
Also "tenore di forza" or "robusto" - a ringing and very powerful, rich, heroic tenor
Singers include Franco Bonisolli, Mario del Monaco, Franco Corelli, Plácido Domingo.
Calaf (Turandot)
Otello (Otello)
Radamés (Aïda)
Rodolfo (Luisa Miller)
Samson (Samson et Dalila)
Heldentenor
A rich, powerful, and dramatic voice. As its name implies, the Heldentenor vocal fach features in the German romantic operatic repertoire. The Heldentenor is the German equivalent of the tenore drammatico, however with a more baritonal quality; the typical Wagnerian protagonist. The keystone of any heldentenor's repertoire is arguably Wagner's Siegfried, an extremely demanding role requiring a wide vocal range, great stamina, and extended dramatic suspension.
Singers include Bernd Aldenhoff, James King, Lauritz Melchior, Wolfgang Windgassen, Jon Vickers and Ben Heppner.
Florestan (Fidelio)
Tannhäuser (Tannhäuser)
Loge (Das Rheingold)
Lohengrin (Lohengrin)
Parsifal (Parsifal)
Siegfried (Siegfried, Götterdämmerung)
Siegmund (Die Walküre)
Walter von Stolzing (Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg)
Tristan (Tristan und Isolde)
Tenore buffo or Character Tenor
A tenor with good acting ability, and the ability to create distinct voices for his characters. Specializes in smaller comic roles such as Don Basilio in The Marriage of Figaro, Mime in Siegfried, Monostatos in The Magic Flute, and Pedrillo in The Abduction from the Seraglio.
There are differing opinions on some of this info, but this is basically within the guidelines of most classical singers/teachers.
_____________________________
Jesus said that in the last days there would be earthquakes, pestilence, distress of nations, famine, signs in the sky, wars and rumors of wars. Sound familiar? Are you ready?
Daryl
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RE: Three Tenors - 1/21/2008 9:43:56 PM
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danielmount
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Again, maybe I'm the only one here, but I found that fascinating. Would you mind sharing your opinion about examples of Southern Gospel (or other well-known Christian) examples of the different types?
Isn't a typical Southern Gospel tenor, if trained at all, closest to a Leggiero tenor?
Where would some of these singers fall, if anywhere?
- Arthur Rice
- Larry Ford (his tone is impressive, whatever it is)
- Bobby Clark
- James Blackwood
- Steve Green
- Ernie Phillips (is he anything, classically speaking?)
- John Rulapaugh
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