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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 7:18:11 AM
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danielmount
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
You know, if several groups through the years have used Kingsmen, why did they HAVE to switch to Carolina Boys. Why couldn't they just say we are a different Kingsmen?? I don't understand copyright stuff, so there is probably a very good reason as to why they couldn't do this.
Basically, they didn't own the name, and they hadn't received permission to use it.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 6:28:20 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
Posts: 333
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
You know, if several groups through the years have used Kingsmen, why did they HAVE to switch to Carolina Boys. Why couldn't they just say we are a different Kingsmen?? I don't understand copyright stuff, so there is probably a very good reason as to why they couldn't do this.
Basically, they didn't own the name, and they hadn't received permission to use it.
Then why have others used it so often. On YouTube there is a Kingsmen Quartet, from California. How could they use it, and the REAL Kingsmen not?
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 6:32:36 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
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Would it have to do with that group not being a for profit business?
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 7:03:34 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
Posts: 333
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Over the last day or so, I have watched the 2 new Kingsmen DVDs "Honoring the Heritage" Volume 2 and "I'll Not Turn Back" Live. I would give them a 2.5-3.0 stars out of 5. The group sounded ok, but it just didnt feel like the same Kingsmen i grew up with. It seemed kinda stayed and tired. Not the whole thing, but some songs.
Having said that, if anyone would like to buy these I will let them and the companion CD's go for 40.00 total shipping included. (That's 15 bucks cheaper than the Kingsmen office) Each DVD has been watched once and the CD's have been opened but not played.
If anyone would like to buy them just drop me private message, and I can give you the email address so that you can pay through paypal. I'd rather not deal with money orders, but I can.
If no one lets me know anything by Sunday, I'm gonna put them on Ebay.
I just figured I'd let you guys know first on here, and give you all a chance on a bargain.
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 7:17:08 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
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I went into it hoping, I really did. I dont know what it was, but something about them just didnt appeal to me like their older stuff.
I thought the performance of "I'll Live Again" was very tired. I have Shelter, and watched it right after I watched that song. Boy, what a difference in performance on the same song, and half the group is the same.
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 7:42:14 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
Posts: 333
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingsmenQuartetFan
yea...i have the Shelter video...its an awesome video...but you have to realize that Bryan and Ray aint as young as they use to be 
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
I went into it hoping, I really did. I dont know what it was, but something about them just didnt appeal to me like their older stuff.
I thought the performance of "I'll Live Again" was very tired. I have Shelter, and watched it right after I watched that song. Boy, what a difference in performance on the same song, and half the group is the same.
I do understand that, but the Kingsmen have always been about quality, and getting older sometimes takes away from the quality of the music.
Time doesn't stop for us. I mean a baseball player, no matter how great he is, has to face that a time will come, when he just can't do what he used to, and will find another way to stay involved with what they love.
I would really like to see Ray take a Jim Hamill type role with the group, and emcee and do the kinds of things Jim used to do.
the Kingsmen are bigger than the members of the group, and I'd hate to see them not move forward when the need to, to keep themselves relevant, and keep singing those strong songs they have always belted out better than anyone.
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 8:01:45 PM
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KingsmenQuartetFan
Posts: 817
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: South Georgia
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yea...Do you think Ray would be a good emcee? I have only heard him emcee maybe like twice when the lineup was Jeremy Peace, Tim Surrett, Jason Selph, and Ray
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
quote:
ORIGINAL: KingsmenQuartetFan
yea...i have the Shelter video...its an awesome video...but you have to realize that Bryan and Ray aint as young as they use to be
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
I went into it hoping, I really did. I dont know what it was, but something about them just didnt appeal to me like their older stuff.
I thought the performance of "I'll Live Again" was very tired. I have Shelter, and watched it right after I watched that song. Boy, what a difference in performance on the same song, and half the group is the same.
I do understand that, but the Kingsmen have always been about quality, and getting older sometimes takes away from the quality of the music.
Time doesn't stop for us. I mean a baseball player, no matter how great he is, has to face that a time will come, when he just can't do what he used to, and will find another way to stay involved with what they love.
I would really like to see Ray take a Jim Hamill type role with the group, and emcee and do the kinds of things Jim used to do.
the Kingsmen are bigger than the members of the group, and I'd hate to see them not move forward when the need to, to keep themselves relevant, and keep singing those strong songs they have always belted out better than anyone.
_____________________________
Josh Griffin
Flawless Four Bass
<<< The BEST Quartet in Southern Gospel Music....Kingsmen
www.kingsmenquartet.com
www.myspace.com/kingsmenquartet
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 8:11:44 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
Posts: 333
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingsmenQuartetFan
yea...Do you think Ray would be a good emcee? I have only heard him emcee maybe like twice when the lineup was Jeremy Peace, Tim Surrett, Jason Selph, and Ray
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
quote:
ORIGINAL: KingsmenQuartetFan
yea...i have the Shelter video...its an awesome video...but you have to realize that Bryan and Ray aint as young as they use to be
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
I went into it hoping, I really did. I dont know what it was, but something about them just didnt appeal to me like their older stuff.
I thought the performance of "I'll Live Again" was very tired. I have Shelter, and watched it right after I watched that song. Boy, what a difference in performance on the same song, and half the group is the same.
I do understand that, but the Kingsmen have always been about quality, and getting older sometimes takes away from the quality of the music.
Time doesn't stop for us. I mean a baseball player, no matter how great he is, has to face that a time will come, when he just can't do what he used to, and will find another way to stay involved with what they love.
I would really like to see Ray take a Jim Hamill type role with the group, and emcee and do the kinds of things Jim used to do.
the Kingsmen are bigger than the members of the group, and I'd hate to see them not move forward when the need to, to keep themselves relevant, and keep singing those strong songs they have always belted out better than anyone.
I don't think he'd be as good as Parker, but Parker ws second to only Hamill as far as I'm concerned as emcee.
I think Ray could do it though. He used to do the merchandise spiel, and did good, and even back when Parker was there, after the switch to CBQ, Ray talked alot more than when it was the Kingsmen the first time.
I loved his joke about the name change, and how he wanted it to be Ray Dean Reese and Reese's pieces....Classic stuff.
Please, please don't get me wrong. i mean no disrespect to Ray. He is a legend. He has been my fav. bass since I first started listening to SG music. He is the bass singer that I always compared all bass singers to.
I just don't want to ever see a day when Southern Gospel music doesn't have the Kingsmen Quartet as one of it's top groups. To stay on top in SG, you need energy and passion, and while I don't doubt the passion of the Kingsmen, the energy isn't there like it used to be.
I remember the days when Ray would be doing the "lasso" for lack of a better term, when they were in a real lively song.
Brandon doesn't sing bass does he??
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 8:45:04 PM
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danielmount
Posts: 7545
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
You know, if several groups through the years have used Kingsmen, why did they HAVE to switch to Carolina Boys. Why couldn't they just say we are a different Kingsmen?? I don't understand copyright stuff, so there is probably a very good reason as to why they couldn't do this.
Basically, they didn't own the name, and they hadn't received permission to use it.
Then why have others used it so often. On YouTube there is a Kingsmen Quartet, from California. How could they use it, and the REAL Kingsmen not?
Basically the other Kingsmen Quartet is probably using the name without permission, in violation of trademark or other applicable laws.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/22/2008 11:54:27 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
Posts: 333
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DJSfromCleveland
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
If you dont know what I mean by "the lasso" watch the YouTube video attached...its at around 1:13 into the song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8hbokKefVc&feature=related
Well, i agree with what Josh said. That video that you posted is from like 1986, which is 22 years ago. Ray is a lot older now.
I know it is, and that's kind of my point. At what point does Ray need to say, It's time to step aside and let the group go on into the future.
The Kingsmen aren't the high energy, high intensity group that I feel like they need to be, to continue to be a top rung SG group.
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 2:06:07 AM
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BryanHutson
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/15/2008
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Well, I have read each post, and I agree everyone has a right to their opinion. I feel the greatest Kingsmen were the personal that recorded "Chattanooga Live", but this my opinion.
I have had 2 tenures with the group, and am proud to be a Kingsmen.
About "I'll Live Again" sounding tired on the DVD, we had NO sound check the day we recorded those DVD's. NO group that performed there that day was permitted to have one. They plugged the instruments in, moved the drums and piano on stage while another artist sang in front of the curtain, and when they introduced us, the tape was rolling.
If you are a singer or musician, and have ever been in a situation where you could not hear yourself, it is very difficult to perform at your potential. However, we are professionals, and we gave it all we had. And will every night. Whether it's 10, or 10,000.
I read your post about Ray emceeing. I emceed those DVD's and I admit, I am not Parker or Big Jim, and no one will ever be. However I tried to learn from them. But I am Bryan. In my defense, I have come along way since those tapings. Over time, you get better at your craft. I emcee from my heart. That's all I know to do.
I am not offended nor upset about what has been said about The Kingsmen. I am here to do a job. My job is to be a Kingsmen and my CALLING is to share God's love and mercy in song.
I appreciate those who have supported the group thru the years.
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 7:27:49 AM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
Posts: 333
Joined: 6/5/2008
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Thanks for your input Bryan. That may very well be part of what seemed to be "missing" about those videos.
And, like I said, I think the group as it was when you came in with you
Chris, Ray and Parker was my favorite, probably because that's basically the group that I first came to know and hear. I actually became a fan of the Kingsmen about a year or so before you joined, and probably seen them in concert the most during those years. You all came to our local highschool alot back then. I'm sure you wouldnt remember one concert, but I was the guy who brought in Arby's for everyone in Jacksboro, TN. when you all were there. I worked at Arby's and brought sandwiches, fries and drinks for the whole group. That was the day that Greg forgot the microphones in NC, and had to miss the second half to meet a guy to pick them up.
About the emcee part, I think you do just great. The emcee deal was more talking about when Ray retires, would he do like Jim and stay and do the emcee work. I wasn't trying to imply that you were doing a bad job. My response was to the following quote.
"yea...Do you think Ray would be a good emcee? I have only heard him emcee maybe like twice when the lineup was Jeremy Peace, Tim Surrett, Jason Selph, and Ray "
and I was just saying tht I thought if he were emcee he would do alright, not that he should replace you, because you are doing fine. I am sorry if I sounded like I was calling for your head!!! I really wasn't.
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 6:27:22 PM
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AmyR
Posts: 1046
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Wichita, KS
Status: offline
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I "gots a question" ... I just downloaded a couple of Kingsmen songs off of iTunes. The first is "I've Got a Reservation" from the 2005 Fan Favorites. The second is "Beautiful Home" from whenever they remade that one.
My ears are telling me that I'm hearing Tim Surrett on both of these songs. My head is telling me that Tim left the group in 2003 or '04 and was replaced by someone who was supposed to sound a lot like him.
Which should I believe?
It's kinda strange that I dropped in here just now. I just got sold on the recent, "newer" Kingsmen like never before by these two songs. As to "I've Got a Reservation," "if that don't light your fire, your wood's wet."
_____________________________
Amy
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 6:33:56 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
Posts: 333
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Beautiful Home is from Born Again in 2004, and Tim was with the group then.
I'm not sure about the lineup on the other song.
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 6:39:03 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
Posts: 333
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They have always done alot of songs on what are called "Table CDS". I have gotten a set of 3 from the late 90s that were old songs of the Kingsmen, old SG songs, and old hymns, all done by the current group.
"I've Got a Reservation" has been on at least a couple albums of the Kingsmen. I know it was on the Live video of You're Not Alone, so it's possible that it was done with Tim at some point.
A good place for info on albums and songs is www.sghistory.com
I think some of the guys from this forum have input on it. It's been a great help for me.
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 7:33:11 PM
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AmyR
Posts: 1046
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Wichita, KS
Status: offline
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I guess I should have thought of sghistory. It looks, from there, like it should have been Tim even on the 2005 ones. It says he did leave the group in '05, but Fan Favorites is listed before another regular release with Tim.
Thanks ... I'll see if anyone contradicts my conclusions, I guess.
_____________________________
Amy
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 8:09:23 PM
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Kingsmen-fan
Posts: 186
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline
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Hi,
Let me start by saying it is a great Honor to have you on here! You are just about my favorite lead singer ever, only after Jim Hamill. I thought your post was great and I agree with it.
I have a few thing I would like to say myself. The first is that I hope Ray will not retire any time soon. You can't just find a new Ray Reese. As for the live albums I must admit that I was a little disappointed with them, but I just figured the group had two new guys and they were the first live CDs in years, but after what Bryan said in his post it is amazing they were as good as they are. And besides all that, after "When God Ran" came out, lets just say I had no worries!! 
quote:
ORIGINAL: BryanHutson
Well, I have read each post, and I agree everyone has a right to their opinion. I feel the greatest Kingsmen were the personal that recorded "Chattanooga Live", but this my opinion.
I have had 2 tenures with the group, and am proud to be a Kingsmen.
About "I'll Live Again" sounding tired on the DVD, we had NO sound check the day we recorded those DVD's. NO group that performed there that day was permitted to have one. They plugged the instruments in, moved the drums and piano on stage while another artist sang in front of the curtain, and when they introduced us, the tape was rolling.
If you are a singer or musician, and have ever been in a situation where you could not hear yourself, it is very difficult to perform at your potential. However, we are professionals, and we gave it all we had. And will every night. Whether it's 10, or 10,000.
I read your post about Ray emceeing. I emceed those DVD's and I admit, I am not Parker or Big Jim, and no one will ever be. However I tried to learn from them. But I am Bryan. In my defense, I have come along way since those tapings. Over time, you get better at your craft. I emcee from my heart. That's all I know to do.
I am not offended nor upset about what has been said about The Kingsmen. I am here to do a job. My job is to be a Kingsmen and my CALLING is to share God's love and mercy in song.
I appreciate those who have supported the group thru the years.
_____________________________
- NE - Alabama
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 8:54:22 PM
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danielmount
Posts: 7545
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AmyR
I "gots a question" ... I just downloaded a couple of Kingsmen songs off of iTunes. The first is "I've Got a Reservation" from the 2005 Fan Favorites. The second is "Beautiful Home" from whenever they remade that one.
My ears are telling me that I'm hearing Tim Surrett on both of these songs. My head is telling me that Tim left the group in 2003 or '04 and was replaced by someone who was supposed to sound a lot like him.
Which should I believe?
It's kinda strange that I dropped in here just now. I just got sold on the recent, "newer" Kingsmen like never before by these two songs. As to "I've Got a Reservation," "if that don't light your fire, your wood's wet."
I had thought Fan Favorites was a compilation.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 9:07:26 PM
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AmyR
Posts: 1046
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Wichita, KS
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: AmyR
I "gots a question" ... I just downloaded a couple of Kingsmen songs off of iTunes. The first is "I've Got a Reservation" from the 2005 Fan Favorites. The second is "Beautiful Home" from whenever they remade that one.
My ears are telling me that I'm hearing Tim Surrett on both of these songs. My head is telling me that Tim left the group in 2003 or '04 and was replaced by someone who was supposed to sound a lot like him.
Which should I believe?
It's kinda strange that I dropped in here just now. I just got sold on the recent, "newer" Kingsmen like never before by these two songs. As to "I've Got a Reservation," "if that don't light your fire, your wood's wet."
I had thought Fan Favorites was a compilation.
Do you mean you thought it was a compilation of the original classics? I wasn't sure until buying this song, but I am fairly sure it isn't the original. (But I bought it because I didn't have the original.) I think it's remakes. Maybe I should buy some of the others (where I'd recognize the original) and assure myself. This one is classy stuff ... IMO.
_____________________________
Amy
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/23/2008 9:31:32 PM
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KingsmenQuartetFan
Posts: 817
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: South Georgia
Status: offline
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yes...its a compilations....that version of "I've Got a Reservation" is one that has Tim Surrett and I think Chris Collins singing it
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: AmyR
I "gots a question" ... I just downloaded a couple of Kingsmen songs off of iTunes. The first is "I've Got a Reservation" from the 2005 Fan Favorites. The second is "Beautiful Home" from whenever they remade that one.
My ears are telling me that I'm hearing Tim Surrett on both of these songs. My head is telling me that Tim left the group in 2003 or '04 and was replaced by someone who was supposed to sound a lot like him.
Which should I believe?
It's kinda strange that I dropped in here just now. I just got sold on the recent, "newer" Kingsmen like never before by these two songs. As to "I've Got a Reservation," "if that don't light your fire, your wood's wet."
I had thought Fan Favorites was a compilation.
_____________________________
Josh Griffin
Flawless Four Bass
<<< The BEST Quartet in Southern Gospel Music....Kingsmen
www.kingsmenquartet.com
www.myspace.com/kingsmenquartet
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RE: The Kingsmen Thread - 8/24/2008 12:13:39 AM
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AmyR
Posts: 1046
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Wichita, KS
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingsmenQuartetFan
yes...its a compilations....that version of "I've Got a Reservation" is one that has Tim Surrett and I think Chris Collins singing it
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
I had thought Fan Favorites was a compilation.
Well what do you know.
Looking on sghistory again ... It lists Chris Collins as '93-'98. I have a songbook a lot older than that ('79) with this song in it. It's by Squire and was copyrighted to the Kingsmen in 1978. So I'm still guessing that they recorded it earlier ... in fact it is in the discography there from '78 (Upper Window). Well, maybe you guys already knew that, but that's what was confusing me. It's a compilation including a remake of a 15+-year-old song.
BTW - Anthony Burger did an instrumental version of it on an old tape my dad played when I was young, so that is hard-wired into my head. The more up-to-date sound of this version had me thinking it was the newest group ....................
Sorry to bore everyone!
_____________________________
Amy
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