Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and pain?
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Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and pain? - 11/4/2008 4:27:36 PM
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Mallow7
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I've been very curious about this as well as anything that relates to the topic. For me I go by the Indian saints teachings that this earth is Gods Cosmic movie drama / art hobby. He created dualities and both good and evil for entertainment purposes just as a movie contains both a protagonist and a antagonist as does life. Why does sadness , anger , lust etc exist if God is perfect and doesn't contain any of those qualities , well what I reason the existence of those traits is in Hinduism they say life is like art and it's not complete without all of those emotions just as though a movie would be somewhat shallow I suppose without those emotions and traits.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/5/2008 10:42:34 AM
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waitingforreturn
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quote:
Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and pain?
Simple.
Because God so loved us. Even though he knew how we would turn out.
It is because of LOVE.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/5/2008 12:10:00 PM
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steve7150
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Because we learn from contrasts. By contrasting love and hate, light and dark, good and evil etc.
We as humans can't have free-will and learn any other way and God knows it so despite the pain and injustice in this age God has a bigger future for his children.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/6/2008 10:09:09 AM
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HardKnox
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He had Jesus in mind from the first, who is more important than all the pain and suffering in history put together. There's no meaning in Hinduism. When the tsunami swept through Southeast Asia, all the Hindu and Buddhists could say was that there was no meaning in all the death and suffering, just the juggernaut of existence and reality. Its all an illusion.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/6/2008 11:40:45 AM
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Zhi
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I've given this some thought.
In order to determine why God created us, and why He created us the way we are, we have to look at His motivations. If you read the Bible, you will realize that His motivation is love. Not only His love for us, but the hope that we will love Him.
The thing about love is that you can't make a mindless automaton love you. I'm a programmer. It would take me about 5 minutes to make a program that will scroll "I LOVE YOU!" across the screen a million times. But, what would be the point? The computer has no choice. It does what I tell it (though there's occasionally a difference between what I tell it and what I *meant* to tell it), it can tell me it loves me, but it doesn't *really* love me, because in order to be able to choose to love, it must also be able to choose to hate. Instead, for love, I look to my husband... knowing that he can hurt me, knowing that he can choose not to love me, knowing that he can reject me or leave me... but also knowing that his love is worth that risk.
So, God made us with free will. We can choose to love Him, or choose not to. Unfortunately, the very first people chose not to love... chose not to obey the single request He made of them. They chose knowledge over love and trust, ate the forbidden fruit, and broke the relationship with God.
The problem with that is that God is all that is good, and perfect, and right. If we choose to reject what is good, and perfect, and right, when we choose to reject God and His plans, then things get very messed up. That's where all the suffering comes from. He could get rid of suffering, but only by making everyone do exactly as He wants, and He values our ability to choose too much to do that to us. Instead, He comes to us gently, offering a relationship but not demanding, offering us guidance but not insisting that we take it. Unfortunately, even when we choose to follow Him, other people do not, which can cause suffering in our lives.
But, there is a consolation... God will not leave those who choose to love Him to suffer here. Our lives are a mere vapor in the scope of eternity, and because He first loved us, He has, at great sacrifice, given us a way to restore our relationship with Him, and He has prepared a place for those of us who choose to love Him. The pain and suffering of history is a natural consequence of our free will, but it pales in comparison to what He offers for those who choose Him, rather than rejecting Him. He's certainly not enjoying watching His creation suffer, but we, and our capacity to love, are too important to Him for Him to interfere and take away our ability to choose.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/6/2008 12:45:02 PM
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Mallow7
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I agree God is perfect and is love and this world is a mere idea of his that through his miraculous abilities has become manifested as a ""reality"" yet it is in a sense a complete illusion. In a way we kind of are like a program though , we all have very similar brains , organs and pipes in our body that connect them like a computer. The physical body is very robotic but the difference is the spirit that's inside of us , some men don't seem to have much spirit and such are quite similar to robots , they do many evil things without feeling any remorse or negativity about it and are never touched by any beautiful things they witness. Everything on this earth could be ""programmed"" in a sense that is all has it's set course that it moves along through the effects of karma , remove cause and effect and this world wouldn't really exist because it only exists to us by inference only.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/6/2008 1:15:02 PM
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Zhi
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quote:
I agree God is perfect and is love and this world is a mere idea of his that through his miraculous abilities has become manifested as a ""reality"" yet it is in a sense a complete illusion. In a way we kind of are like a program though , we all have very similar brains , organs and pipes in our body that connect them like a computer. The physical body is very robotic but the difference is the spirit that's inside of us , some men don't seem to have much spirit and such are quite similar to robots , they do many evil things without feeling any remorse or negativity about it and are never touched by any beautiful things they witness. Everything on this earth could be ""programmed"" in a sense that is all has it's set course that it moves along through the effects of karma , remove cause and effect and this world wouldn't really exist because it only exists to us by inference only.
Well, saying "the world is an illusion" sounds all mystical and fun and such, but it's a pretty worthless assertion for practicality's sake. The basic fact is that God can design a universe however He wants (omnipotence thing). We can take a hard look at it and see how He made it. As far as we can tell, it's made of matter, which is made of particles which are made of other smaller particles and we can get into quantum physics if you'd really like (I love quantum physics, personally), but the general fact is that calling reality an "illusion" or even "not an illusion" in the face of an all-powerful being is pretty useless. Primarily because an all-powerful being who created the laws of physics can break them if He so chooses, including the second law of thermodynamics (the one about how matter and energy can't be created or destroyed). So, the word "illusion" basically becomes meaningless. The universe exists. It has not always existed. It will not always exist. But, right now, it does. That's plenty for now, and doesn't really fit any valid definitions of "illusion" that I'm aware of, because "illusion" would require an actual lack of actual existence for something that we perceive to exist, which is not what's happening, either from the standpoint of scientific observation or from the standpoint of what God tells us about His creation of the universe.
Evil people have a soul and spirit just as much as anyone else does. Assuming they don't feel any remorse or negativity about it, or that they can't be touched by beauty, seems a little odd, as I would assume you're not an empath and cannot, in fact, feel what other people are feeling for them. I think we're all pretty aware that what people appear to be feeling to other people, and what they're actually going through, is often two different things, even from our own personal experiences. God has given us a conscience. Whether or not we listen to that conscience is our choice.
We can speculate what "could be" until the cows come home, but to put it bluntly, God has been pretty clear about what is, and what is not. Karma is pretty well debunked by scripture, and should be pretty well debunked by simple observation... some people suffer. Children are born into extreme poverty and die, without having done anything to "deserve" that. As such, there must be some sort of extra-earthly accounting going on... which scripture basically says there is, but it is based on our sin before a holy God, not on what we think is good or bad or give each others kudos for. The reality of our situation, as laid out in scripture, is that we've all sinned, and as such we're all guilty and deserve nothing but punishment. It doesn't matter what we try to do, really, because it's like saying "well, yeah, I did murder 16 people, but look! I saved a puppy!" We ALL have a sin debt that we are incapable of paying. It doesn't matter if you're Mother Teresa or Hitler, compared to God you're simply unworthy. But, He has offered us a way out by sacrificing His own Son to pay that sin debt. If you accept the sacrifice, your sin debt is paid, and you are once more acceptable to God. If you do not, that's your choice, and you will suffer the consequences... if not now, then in eternity. You have to view this from God's perspective... this planet is our chance to choose, a mere eyeblink in the face of eternity. Now, Satan has tried to obscure this fact by coming up with all sorts of false religions and feel-good philosophies, but reality is pretty simple. Look at the world. See if the philosophy actually fits what's going on. From my experience, only the Bible does. Then, take the Bible at its word, and choose to take the free gift that will pay for everything, the sacrifice of His Son.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/6/2008 1:47:58 PM
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LCannon
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From the Westminster(Short)Catechism:
Question 7: What are the decrees of God?-The decrees of God are, his eternal purpose, according to the counsel of His will, whereby, for His own glory, He hath foreordained whatsoever comes to pass.
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:
Question 8: How doth God execute His decrees?-Answer: God executeth His decrees in the works of creation and providence.
Question 9: What is the work of creation?-Answer: The work of creation is, God's making all things of nothing, by the word of His power, in the space of six days, and all very good.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Question 10: How did God create man?-Answer: God created man male and female, after His own image, in knowledge, righteousness, and holiness, with dominion[a higher plane with an appreciation for his(their) future and destiny]over the creatures.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created He them.
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him:
Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Why? Question 1: What is the chief end of man?-Answer: Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever.
Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Psalm 73:25 Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. 26 My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever
Question 2: What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him?-Answer: The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.
KJV 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
1 Peter 1:23-'Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.'
---for obedience to Him.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/6/2008 2:23:22 PM
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1love1God1way
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God created because it brought Him glory.
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love.ben
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/6/2008 10:45:15 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Why? Question 1: What is the chief end of man?-Answer: Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever.
I love this quote. I grew up in an legalistic church where the fact we were to ENJOY God an the life He gives was almost sinful
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/8/2008 12:08:58 AM
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bob97
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quote:
Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and pain?
God didn't give us a world of hurt and pain...God gave us a prefect world. Man him self made the decision to live according to his own will and thus entered a world where he was living apart from the perfectness that God envisioned.
For this reason God cursed the world and all that was within it...man and creation was dead in sin, in other words they were dead to God's righteousness.
God then gave man a choice...come back to Him by faith and we could be redeemed.
So there you have it...I personally don't live a life of pain and hurt...I have peace in the mists of all of this turmoil. This doesn't mean that my life is 100% OK but God does give me the strength to handle with acceptances what does happen. This life is but a blink of the eye...I'm looking forward to forever.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/8/2008 10:01:27 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
For this reason God cursed the world and all that was within it...man and creation was dead in sin, in other words they were dead to God's righteousness.
But Christ became a curse for us, so we can live in His righteousness. While we live under the effects of the fall, there is nothing in these effects that can seperate us from His love. One day all of these effects will be wiped away.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/9/2008 6:45:32 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mallow7
Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and pain? Because God couldn't make a sinless world.
If God could have, but didn't, that means He wants sin. But that is ridiculous.
quote:
some men don't seem to have much spirit and such are quite similar to robots , they do many evil things without feeling any remorse or negativity about it and are never touched by any beautiful things they witness. That is because they used to be sensitive, but they has their conscience seared with a hot iron(1Ti 4:2) Trusting in the vanity of their mind,
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto licentiousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.(Eph 4:18-19); God also gave them up to uncleanness,. vile affections, to a reprobate mind...(Rom 1:24,26,28)
No one starts out wicked(ar as a sinner) we are all at fault for making ourselves sinners by willful, intentional, volitional disobedience or even rebellion.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/9/2008 8:48:44 PM
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bob97
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What do you suppose the difference is between the angels that fell and the ones that didn't? You would think they were all created equally.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/10/2008 10:06:46 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
What do you suppose the difference is between the angels that fell and the ones that didn't? You would think they were all created equally.
Bob Equal in authority, no.
Lucifer was the greatest, Micheal is the Arch-angle, the rest are messengers and such.
However, they are all created equally, made with free will to choose, just as we are.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/11/2008 2:22:14 PM
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Mallow7
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mallow7
Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and pain? Because God couldn't make a sinless world.
If God could have, but didn't, that means He wants sin. But that is ridiculous.
quote:
some men don't seem to have much spirit and such are quite similar to robots , they do many evil things without feeling any remorse or negativity about it and are never touched by any beautiful things they witness. That is because they used to be sensitive, but they has their conscience seared with a hot iron(1Ti 4:2) Trusting in the vanity of their mind,
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto licentiousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.(Eph 4:18-19); God also gave them up to uncleanness,. vile affections, to a reprobate mind...(Rom 1:24,26,28)
No one starts out wicked(ar as a sinner) we are all at fault for making ourselves sinners by willful, intentional, volitional disobedience or even rebellion.
But if God is sensitive why would he so brutally punish us on this earth? You would think he would have compassion for us but I guess because he has no sadness in him he doesn't feel that way.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/11/2008 3:22:08 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1501
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quote:
But if God is sensitive why would he so brutally punish us on this earth? You would think he would have compassion for us but I guess because he has no sadness in him he doesn't feel that way.
He's not brutally punishing us, though. The pain and difficulty of life is a result of the choices that we, and those around us make, and a result of the fact that this is a fallen world. The fact that there is any good, and any joy at all in this world is the result of God having compassion on us and not forsaking us entirely to our own devices. But, He will not interfere to the point where we lose our ability to choose. Even though it breaks His heart when His children choose wrong... and He longs for the day that we will realize our mistake and run back to Him. He longs for the day when He will be able to provide those who choose to love Him with a place that doesn't have the pain and anguish of this life. This life is so short, but we will be with Him for all eternity... every need provided for, every tear brushed away.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/11/2008 6:17:17 PM
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bob97
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Look it a different way...if God did not have compassion what a nasty world this would be. After all it is a world that chose to do things their way...not God's way. This is a world of sin and there are two camps...those who belong to God and those who are dead to God.
Even those who belong to God obey Him to varying degrees. Myself...I'm convinced that If we were to obey God to the fullest our life here would pretty easy...not entirely without turmoil but pretty much so.
Certainly in my walk I know the closer to Him I walk the easier my life is.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Why did God create the earth? And why with evil and... - 11/13/2008 3:35:59 PM
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Diolectic
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From: Iowa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mallow7
But if God is sensitive why would he so brutally punish us on this earth? You would think he would have compassion for us but I guess because he has no sadness in him he doesn't feel that way. What do you mean?
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