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When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 6:13:03 AM
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pinopolitan
Posts: 42
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Our Lord Jesus spoke of giving eternal life to his flock. Does this begin now or when the person passes away?
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 7:19:45 AM
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Josh4LinC
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From: Minnesota
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As soon as you are born again through the Holy Spirit. In other words, once you put your faith in Christ Jesus, our blessed Lord and Savior. That is when you know that eternal life has begun. Of course, there may be a few changes along the journey. Yep, I'm definitely looking forward to taking that new glorious body the Lord has promised each of us for a spin. I think the first thing I will do is bow before the Lord and give thanks, then I'm going for a nice long run. Who's with me? 
_____________________________
In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 8:56:10 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1211
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pinopolitan
Our Lord Jesus spoke of giving eternal life to his flock. Does this begin now or when the person passes away?
By definition, eternal life has no beginning and no end. We receive eternal life when we receive the One in whom there is eternal life, Jesus Christ. That is a present reality, not a hope for the future. We who are in Christ, have eternal life.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 9:01:46 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1305
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
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So, a person who never accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior doesn't live eternally? What happens when they die? They just cease to exist?
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 9:05:31 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 2066
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
So, a person who never accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior doesn't live eternally? What happens when they die? They just cease to exist?
GD, if I understand Revelation, the Bible calls what the lost experiences "The Second Death." While their torment and separation from God will last for eternity, I think it takes a stretch to call their existence "living."
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 9:14:47 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1211
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
So, a person who never accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior doesn't live eternally? What happens when they die? They just cease to exist?
Those who accept Christ have life. Those who do not accept Christ remain as they are...dead. Heaven is for the living, hell is for the dead.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 10:00:00 AM
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DrIjames
Posts: 44
Joined: 11/16/2008
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Hi, Great question!!!. King David said that while he was yet in his mothers womb, God had a plan for his life. Every one has eternal life, being Jewish, we believe it starts at conception, however, most believe that it starts when you are born. Some believe that it starts when you are saved. If we stop and think about it all humans have eternal life, the question is , " is it to eternal damnation, or eternally in the presence of G-d. We are living our eternal life now. and we are making choices that determine were we we end up after we leave this world.
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 11:31:48 AM
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drfuss
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drfuss: Over a years ago, I did a study on when does eternal life begin. Here are scriptures on both sides of the issue.
Eternal Life Only in the Future
Scriptures that can be used to support eternal life starting when you die include:
Mark 10:17 - The rich young man asked Jesus what to do to inherit eternal life.
Luke 10:25 - An expert of the law asked Jesus “What must I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 18:18 - A certain ruler asked Jesus “What must I do to inherit eternal life?
Matt. 19:29 - Jesus talks about the blessings of this life and then says “and will inherit eternal life”.
Matt. 25:46 - Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
Mark 10:30 - Jesus talks about blessings in this life and then He says “in the age to come, eternal life”.
Luke 18:30 - Jesus talks about blessings in this life and then He says “and, in the age to come, eternal life”.
Romans 2:7 - “To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, he will give eternal life.”
Romans 2:21 - “….so that grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Titus 1;2 - Here Paul says “hope of eternal life” (Implies future tense).
Titus 3:7 - “so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life”.
1 John 2:25 - “And this is what He promised us---even eternal life.”
Jude 21 - “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
The above scriptures are specific about eternal life referring to the future life and not to the present life.
Eternal Life Now
Scriptures that can be used to support Christians having eternal life now include:
John 3:16, 3:36, 5:39, 6:40, 6:54, 10:28, 12:25, 17;2&3
1 Tim. 1:16
These scriptures talk about Christians having eternal life now.
It is of interest that I did not find any “eternal life only in the future” scriptures in the Book of John, and few “eternal life now” scriptures outside the book of John.
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 11:54:09 AM
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LCannon
Posts: 1223
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: online
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quote:
Eternal Life Only in the Future Eternal Life start at birth of a created being that can ponder a future, ie:angels, demons, mortals(us).
'Eternity' is the total of existence, past and future, physical and ethereal.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/2/2008 2:35:56 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 2066
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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Also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will
-Ephesians 1:11
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
-John 3:36
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
-John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."
-John 6:47
"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
-John 6:54
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/3/2008 7:45:14 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1305
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
So, a person who never accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior doesn't live eternally? What happens when they die? They just cease to exist?
GD, if I understand Revelation, the Bible calls what the lost experiences "The Second Death." While their torment and separation from God will last for eternity, I think it takes a stretch to call their existence "living."
Good point -- and I agree!!
I think eternal life begins at physical birth. What's determined by our acceptance of Christ is where we will spend that eternity, not whether or not we'll exist forever.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/3/2008 10:32:43 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2013
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Eternal life begins the moment you are conceived…your life begins and you will live forever…hopefully in the presences or your LORD.
Death in this life is only the first step into the next existences and many will live a life of suffering and sorrow…to their regret.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/3/2008 10:45:07 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 3603
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
By definition, eternal life has no beginning and no end.
quote:
'Eternity' is the total of existence, past and future, physical and ethereal.
I want to point out that while eternity CAN mean no beginning and no end, it does not always encompass both; it can mean no beginning or no end. Jesus' statement "Before Abraham was, I am" implies strongly that Abraham's eternal existence had a beginning. Eternity for God alone is without a beginning and an end. The idea that all souls have always eternally existed is Mormon doctrine.
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/3/2008 1:43:50 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1211
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
By definition, eternal life has no beginning and no end.
quote:
'Eternity' is the total of existence, past and future, physical and ethereal.
I want to point out that while eternity CAN mean no beginning and no end, it does not always encompass both; it can mean no beginning or no end. Jesus' statement "Before Abraham was, I am" implies strongly that Abraham's eternal existence had a beginning. Eternity for God alone is without a beginning and an end. The idea that all souls have always eternally existed is Mormon doctrine.
When we are saved we receive eternal life. That is life with no beginning and no end...for it is the very life of Christ. We receive Christ in whom is life....eternal life...life without beginning and without end. That life does not begin with us, it is received by us, in Christ.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/3/2008 1:54:23 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3603
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
By definition, eternal life has no beginning and no end.
quote:
'Eternity' is the total of existence, past and future, physical and ethereal.
I want to point out that while eternity CAN mean no beginning and no end, it does not always encompass both; it can mean no beginning or no end. Jesus' statement "Before Abraham was, I am" implies strongly that Abraham's eternal existence had a beginning. Eternity for God alone is without a beginning and an end. The idea that all souls have always eternally existed is Mormon doctrine.
When we are saved we receive eternal life. That is life with no beginning and no end...for it is the very life of Christ. We receive Christ in whom is life....eternal life...life without beginning and without end. That life does not begin with us, it is received by us, in Christ.
Peace
Salvation is more than just receiving eternal life; our life is also transformed in the process of being united with Christ. While the source of eternal life comes from Christ alone, who has always been from eternity, our transformed life does have a beginning. Salvation is far more than Christ replacing us, it is him transforming us into his image; our personhood is not lost in salvation, it is changed through it.
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/3/2008 2:25:58 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1833
Status: offline
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quote:
Eternal life begins the moment you are conceived…your life begins and you will live forever
This is certainly not what Scripture reveals. I am frankly shocked to see so many on this thread presenting this false notion.
Eternal life is God's gift to the sinner who believes the Gospel and repents. It is the life of Christ Himself, who come to indwell the believer, with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Therefore eternal life begins at the moment of salvation, not one moment sooner. Eternal life refers not only to the duration but also to the quality and the source of that life. Eternal life is impossible without a union with Christ, who is both "the Resurrection" and "the Life".
There is no eternal life outside of Christ ("who is our Life") and all human beings at birth at spiritually dead and will remain so unless they are born of God.
< Message edited by Ezra -- 12/4/2008 12:57:52 AM >
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/3/2008 2:31:39 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1211
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
By definition, eternal life has no beginning and no end.
quote:
'Eternity' is the total of existence, past and future, physical and ethereal.
I want to point out that while eternity CAN mean no beginning and no end, it does not always encompass both; it can mean no beginning or no end. Jesus' statement "Before Abraham was, I am" implies strongly that Abraham's eternal existence had a beginning. Eternity for God alone is without a beginning and an end. The idea that all souls have always eternally existed is Mormon doctrine.
When we are saved we receive eternal life. That is life with no beginning and no end...for it is the very life of Christ. We receive Christ in whom is life....eternal life...life without beginning and without end. That life does not begin with us, it is received by us, in Christ.
Peace
Salvation is more than just receiving eternal life; our life is also transformed in the process of being united with Christ. While the source of eternal life comes from Christ alone, who has always been from eternity, our transformed life does have a beginning. Salvation is far more than Christ replacing us, it is him transforming us into his image; our personhood is not lost in salvation, it is changed through it.
Salvation is receiving life. The wages of sin is death. The only thing a dead person needs is life, and there is only One who has the life we need...
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/3/2008 2:37:01 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1211
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
Eternal life begins the moment you are conceived…your life begins and you will live forever
This is certainly not what Scripture reveals. I am frankly shocked to see so many on this thread presenting this false notion.
Eternal life is God's gift to the sinner who believes the Gospel and repents. It is the life of Christ Himself, who come to indwell the believer, with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Therefore eternal life begins at the moment of salvation, not one moment sooner. Eternal life refers not only to the duration but also to the quality and the source of that life. Eternal life is impossible with a union with Christ, who is both "the Resurrection" and "the Life".
There is no eternal life outside of Christ ("who is our Life") and all human beings at birth at spiritually dead and will remain so unless they are born of God.
I agree with most of what you say Ezra, but if the life we receive is the very eternal life of Christ, how could it have a beginning? There is a point at which we receive His life, but His life does not begin with us.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/4/2008 12:37:01 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1833
Status: offline
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quote:
but if the life we receive is the very eternal life of Christ, how could it have a beginning? There is a point at which we receive His life, but His life does not begin with us.
Christ -- the eternal Word and the eternal Son -- is from everlasting to everlasting because "thou art God". His life therefore does not begin with us, but begins in us the moment we receive Him as Lord and Savior:
"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON. He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life... we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God AND ETERNAL LIFE" (1 Jn. 5:11,12,20).
When we are in the Son and the Son is in us, we have eternal life. But it only begins when we are born again. Our eternal life begins at the New Birth, whereas Christ Himself is Eternal Life. Eternal life is the very life of Christ within the child of God (Jn. 1:12,13).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/4/2008 12:46:00 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2120
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
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I find this discussion very interesting, because in another thread (Aion or Aionios???) it is being claimed that "eternal life" only refers to our life on this earth. The thread claims that "eternal life" is only referring to a temporary state in God's kingdom on this earth.
Any comments on this? Or does everyone here just consider it as absurd as I do to claim that the life that Christ gives could ever cease?
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/4/2008 1:47:00 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1211
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
I find this discussion very interesting, because in another thread (Aion or Aionios???) it is being claimed that "eternal life" only refers to our life on this earth. The thread claims that "eternal life" is only referring to a temporary state in God's kingdom on this earth.
Any comments on this? Or does everyone here just consider it as absurd as I do to claim that the life that Christ gives could ever cease?
It is either eternal life, and God is true. Or it is temporal life, and God is a liar, and I do not think God a liar.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/4/2008 8:27:12 PM
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conan
Posts: 105
Joined: 2/23/2006
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First time visitors at our church recieve a welcome packet ...with a vistor's card of course. The packet has information about the church, core beliefs and coupons. One is a taco bell coupon (I know its corny) ...once in possesion of that coupon one is then the proud beneficiary of a taco, a cinnamon twist and a drink ...all free of charge. However in order to recieve the promised goods, you must visit Taco Bell and REDEEM them with the coupon.
Consider what these verses teach about redemption:
Lu 21:28
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Eph 1:14 - Show Context
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Eph 4:30 - Show Context
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
I believe the answer is simply ...the ressurection, which is the day of our redemption.
Until then then we live in hope and earnest expectation ...walking by faith and not by sight. If we had already grasped eternity ...then why do we need faith, and more faith, and hope?
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RE: When does eternal life begin? - 12/4/2008 8:56:41 PM
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drfuss
Posts: 203
Joined: 3/9/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: conan
First time visitors at our church recieve a welcome packet ...with a vistor's card of course. The packet has information about the church, core beliefs and coupons. One is a taco bell coupon (I know its corny) ...once in possesion of that coupon one is then the proud beneficiary of a taco, a cinnamon twist and a drink ...all free of charge. However in order to recieve the promised goods, you must visit Taco Bell and REDEEM them with the coupon.
Consider what these verses teach about redemption:
Lu 21:28
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Eph 1:14 - Show Context
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Eph 4:30 - Show Context
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
I believe the answer is simply ...the ressurection, which is the day of our redemption.
Until then then we live in hope and earnest expectation ...walking by faith and not by sight. If we had already grasped eternity ...then why do we need faith, and more faith, and hope?
drfuss: Good post, Conan. Well said.
I believe the scriptures used to support eternal life now, really are referring to eternal life in the future. Christians have eternal life (in the future) because they are trusting in Christ.
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