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The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/22/2008 6:52:48 PM
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peacebringer
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They used to promote themselves as raising up an army. THey still may have that on the website.
Now I had never heard anything from Damon Thompson or Karen Wheaton that directly concerned me.
I thought it was all about getting youth and kids on fire for Jesus and sharing the Gospel. It wasn't until blinders coming off with exposure to Mr. Bentley did I begin to have any concern about these folks. I went to there forum today for the first time in a while and found some scary threads.
First of all here is there website www.theramp.org
Some pretty disturbing threads, here is one talking about those coming against signs and wonders and "moves of the Spirit" as Lawlessness Lawlessness thread
and another thread about "their generation" and what they expect and anticipate... Generational awakening
They now talk of things in terms of "Awakening"
it is grievious and sad and God really needs to move to shake any of these kids free because they truely believe that God will make them essentially "superheroes." It is sad but it is where things are headed. Things like Lakeland just bring exposure. Sad.
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 11:32:27 AM
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lw9
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It is indeed very scary and something many of us have been warning about for a long time. The elitist and arrogant attitude is apparent. No one before them has seen or known the real God. No one before them has had the faith and knowledge they have. They are [in their own minds] super special and super gifted, and no generation comes close to being on the same level as them. This is the delusion today's Latter Rain kids are being fed.
About 'Chosen' - From The Ramp site:
quote:
They bring the relentless assignment of awakening a generation into each realm of influence the Father has given to them. Dorm rooms breed prayer and office buildings facilitate worship. Ministry refuses to be contained to a scheduled, religious setting. The team continually learns how to operate under the anointing as they grow in community with each other and with their authority.
On most weekends of the year, Chosen either travels with Karen or leads services at the Ramp. Their dances prophetically gesture the Word of the Lord, and their dramas visibly manifest the heart of the invisible God. The Holy Spirit shouts revelation through their speaking. The musicians channel heaven's rhythmic call to worship. While Karen mothers them into spiritual maturity, individuals learn to utilize gifts, and the corporate group learns to flow together in unity. The dances, dramas, speaking, and worship result in altars filled with broken teenagers ready to experience God's Kingdom.
Wow... after reading that lofty description, one would think these specially chosen people of God must be doing some pretty amazing things! And then I watched the video. 'Prophetic Dancing' looks amazingly like a cross between a rehearsed boy band dance routine, aerobics, and a little 'Lord of the Dance' thrown in for good measure. And 'Channeling heaven's rhythmic call to worship' sounds amazingly like mediocre stereo-typical pop music.
What exactly are broken teenagers lining up to receive and experience after watching the stage shows? How does this dance move anyone to repent of their sins or understand that Christ paid for their sins with His blood?? I've since watched other videos of 'Chosen' on youtube. I'm not seeing or hearing the true gospel of Christ - which includes sin, repentance, atonement, faith - being presented in these productions.
More garbage The Ramp peddles to kids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ape-7zbsx4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYrKgrkIrg8&feature=related [this video has been discussed in another thread, as well]
Hey, guess what. If it looks like a rave, and it sounds like a rave... it IS a rave. The theologically deep and reverential lyrics included:
- Mess us up in your presence
- Put your hands in the air, wave them like you just don't care
- Grab your partner dosie do
- You spin me right round Jesus right round like a record Jesus right round round round
- People all over the world join hands, start a love train
I pray the Lord God will open the eyes of the children raised under false Latter Rain doctrine.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 8/23/2008 10:00:15 PM >
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 11:57:21 AM
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Soxfan
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Typical Latter Rain/Dominionist heresy, repackaged to easily influence youth. The same thing goes for "The Call" which is supported by C Peter Wagners's NAR
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 12:38:48 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peacebringer
Some pretty disturbing threads, here is one talking about those coming against signs and wonders and "moves of the Spirit" as Lawlessness Lawlessness thread
Notice that you don't even get a few words into it before a connection is made to IHOP. And it's really funny IMO that they're so worried about Rob Bell's influence on people.
EDITED TO ADD:
This was on the second page of that thread. Yep, Todd Bentley's influence lives on.
quote:
Talking to angels will be daily(it's crazy...i have met 4 angels in the past month)...seeing visions will be like taking a breath...people will be going to and from Heaven like they are taking a vacation....There will be those who have the strength of Samson and the speed of Elijah...there will be those who will command winds and rain to stop and start....Teleportations and Translations will be as common for Christians as flying on Airplanes....walking on water will start to look easy because so many Christians will be doing even greater things like just flying over to the other side....God's presence will be so manifested around believers that all they have to do is walk into wal-mart and everyone starts falling to the ground to repent....God's presence will be so great around us that all sick people have to do is get within 20 feet of us and they get healed....Hospitals will be emptied and entire grave yards will come alive just because we walk through them...
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 1:51:45 PM
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colliefan
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Weren't the individuals in the film "Jesus Camp" a part of this craziness?
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 2:32:24 PM
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lw9
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quote:
colliefan: Weren't the individuals in the film "Jesus Camp" a part of this craziness?
No, that was Becky Fisher & company. However, being that both are tied into Latter Rain, there are similarities.
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 2:54:26 PM
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selahgirl
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My heart is breaking as I read what has been posted on the blog you mentioned. I left a Vineyard church four years ago that I have since heard is raising their youth up in THE RAMP ministry, taking groups regularly to Nashville TN. I know people at that former church that have raved about it, but I have just never had a good feeling about it. Which confused me because I loved Karen Wheaton way back when she was single and ministering thru worship and powerful words. But something just didn't feel right about this ministry. Mainly the obsessive reaction that I was seeing from the people that were attending it. The focus was on THE RAMP and there was an absence of the mention of Christ in their zeal. (Big flags with any move among so-called Christian circles).
But we knew little about it though some friends kept inviting us to attend with them. So my teenage daughter and I watched it on TV twice to get a taste of what it involved. Appearances looked like any other programmed dance ministry for teens... but there was something about it that felt really really yucky spiritually. We both felt it strongly with no question. We couldn't put our finger on it but we knew that it was not something we were to join ourselves to... even though several close friends at the Vineyard were deeply involved with it, and they sent their youth dance teams there regularly.
The root of my concern is that it breeds a spirit of rebellion in the teens in the age group that one of the bloggers addresses 15-18. That is already the most confusing and most rebellious and most arrogant age for most teens (though not all). There is much tension in even the best of families during those years. That is the area/time of weakness that the enemy attacks our kids.
I have seen this elitest/arrogant mindset at work in my former church. I have seen the teens ripped apart from their families as arrogant leaders manipulate their attention to feed their own insecurities. It is from the pit of hell. The enemies devices are being exposed, because so many are crying out to God for their children who have been manipulated by such eccentric pastors and church leaders soaked and dripping with false humility. Teens were taught to rely on the impressions and insight of their leaders above anyone else, to include parents and Scripture itself. Most parents are too busy/self-absorbed to pay attention to what is happening, or too exhausted/stressed to care.
I don't know if I can even effectively explain how the procedure works. But the rejection/trivialization of the Word of God is the key to their attack. Satan has always succeeded in deception and manipulating the minds of people by separating them from Truth... from the Word of God. He seldom uses outright lies, he prefers twisting Truth into a lie because it is so much more subtle and effective. He then delivers it thru some appealing puppet, such as other teens or college age people that have sold out to their leadership and become pawns. (In the garden the serpent was the pawn, in the tribulation it will be the person who agrees to be the anti-christ). The actual dirty work is seldom done by the true culprits.
In the post mentioned from the RAMP blog, the blogger quotes a verse from Galatians 2:19-21...
"For through the law I have died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.The life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God;
for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing."
Here is the twisting and manipulation tactic of the enemy at it's best.... the blogger goes on to warn teens between 15-18 years of age that...
"In this lawlessness, there will be those who will try to disprove what God is doing in accordance to the "law".
Satan is looking to use our own Bible against us.
believers everywhere would rather go to the law for information, and the acknowledgement of the Holy Spirit will be negated."
His reference to the law is done in such a way as to open the door to deny any passage of Scripture old or new Testament. It disregards the guidelines laid out for the New Testament church, by referencing a scripture that refers to the sacrificial laws laid out in the Old Testament strictly for Israel (though some still keep those dietary laws which is another thread).
I have seen this twisted theology in action among teens and among adults manipulated by a leadership out of control... convincing them to follow the kingdom of a man or a movement... under the guise that they are working for the Kingdom of God. It's a lie. It's confusing. It's convincing and subtle, just like the serpent was in the garden. He hasn't changed. He's very trendy and up to date in how he masks it, but it remains just as evil as the day he spawned the technique.
Leaders decide what is truth and what is the will of God based on whatever they decide God has spoken or revealed (but it is actually based on their own selfish ambitions to do something great and cutting-edge, that no one has thought of before them... even though some of them are deceived themselves about their true motives). If those leaders contradict the Word of God, it is covered up, justified, ignored -- or the person who measures their actions to the word is blackballed and labeled as rebellious and in sin... then they are foreced out of their synagogue and rejected. Sound familiar?
What me and my family experienced four years ago was the most brutal attack of hell I have ever known, and it came from people in the church world. It was a literal hell and shook every level of my faith and confidence in the good of people. But God walked us thru that gauntlet, we are still recovering, it grossly damaged one of my children and our family is still dealing with the aftermath of it all. But God is restoring and is so very gracious. Most of the teens that were among those that followed those leaders are suffering horrid hardships as they are college age now. Several are pregnant, have police records, are wandering thru life emotionally confused because they are no longer the center of attention of a leadership that used them up for attention then moved on to the next batch of 15-18 year olds. It has left a trail of broken people, lost children, and crippled families all in the name of working for the Kingdom of God.
I am so thankful that God opened our eyes and moved us out of that place. I'm so thankful that he made us stubborn about putting the word of God first in our lives as the spoken word of Jesus Christ. Anything, anyone, in life that goes against that or that touts anything above or even beside that name (or that fails to fall into accordance with his teachings) is to be avoided, rejected or rebuked. Whether pastor, friend, family, child, angel, or Satan himself. Such is the mark of the people of God, true Christians, those that follow Jesus Christ and no other -- He is the only way to the Father. Be careful of superficial talk by such people, they seem so beautiful and Godly outwardly. But watch the fruit of their actions and of their words (just as Christ cautioned)... the fruit that you witness them to bear, not what they claim from the past... their fruit born in the moment will expose the corruption that is inward... every time.
Also, there was a singer that recently claimed that he captured angels singing in the background of one of his songs recorded on his cd. I don't doubt that such an incident could happen, but the flag for me was that EVERYONE that I heard refer to it focused on the supposed angels rather than on what God was doing in that worship service when it was captured on audio. The hearts of people immediately rushed over to the angel camp with wide eyes hoping to witness one or catch a glimpse of some aspect of one... their focus and love for Christ and what he was doing took a backseat in their hearts. That is dangerous ground. That is a first and distracted step off the path.
I don't know the heart of THE RAMP, I don't know where it's leaders or Karen Wheaton stand. I do know situations where leadership has interfered in personal family business and dictated who certain teens could date or not date (over their parents). Not thru just hearsay, but actual friends I know. I do know that I see so much in the appearance of this ministry that lines up with the abuse and error I experienced and witnessed in my former church. If a close friend asked my opinion in the matter, I would say tread lightly or not at all until you've measured the heart of their teachings to the Word of God. And go with God as you seek out your salvation.
.
< Message edited by selahgirl -- 8/23/2008 3:04:54 PM >
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 5:50:43 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Weren't the individuals in the film "Jesus Camp" a part of this craziness?
Well, here's a connection (closer than Kevin Bacon)...
Becky Fisher brought Lou Engle to speak to the camp on the film. Lou's organization is "The Call" which is very closely tied to IHOP and Mike Bickle. At the end of the movie, Lou has taken some of the kids from the camp featured in the film to DC to pray in front of the Supreme Court.
On "The Ramp" website fourm links that were posted here, it was pretty clear that individuals were familiar with IHOP and "The Call" - there was mention of going to a HOP (not the main IHOP mothership, but in one of the other cities) and both groups were mentioned as well as listening to a Mike Bickle sermon.
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 8/23/2008 6:15:43 PM >
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 6:12:28 PM
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peacebringer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
colliefan: Weren't the individuals in the film "Jesus Camp" a part of this craziness?
No, that was Becky Fisher & company. However, being that both are tied into Latter Rain, there are similarities.
THese kids have been invovled with Becky Fischer. Back before Mr. Bentley, they talked about the film and I let them convince me inspite of my strong negatives of the film nothing to be concerned about. Becky Fischer is listed as children's minister for Patricia King.
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 6:29:41 PM
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earthless
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Heresy R Us....
False prophets Galore...
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 6:47:54 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Heresy R Us....
False prophets Galore...
What makes it worse is that they are preying on impressionable youth.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 8:25:19 PM
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themoodyexperience
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From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Weren't the individuals in the film "Jesus Camp" a part of this craziness?
Every time i see the Ramp, which I still can't believe is just a few counties over, it's always struck me as the natural progression of Jesus Camp.
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Of course thieves hate watch-dogs, and love darkness. It is time that somebody should spring his rattle, and call attention to the way in which God is being robbed of his glory, and man of his hope.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 9:58:14 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Weren't the individuals in the film "Jesus Camp" a part of this craziness?
Every time i see the Ramp, which I still can't believe is just a few counties over, it's always struck me as the natural progression of Jesus Camp.
I feel for the poor kids of 'Jesus Camp' and am angry over their parents.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 10:07:19 PM
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colliefan
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What upsets me, is the film "Jesus Camp" presents a false view of the evangelical church.
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 10:11:54 PM
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lw9
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quote:
Well, here's a connection (closer than Kevin Bacon)...
Definitely. All of the groups and individuals mentioned - The Ramp, IHOP, The Call, Becky Fisher, Lou Engle - fall into the New Apostolic Reformation category, which in turn falls into the 'Latter Rain' category. They do indeed run in the same circles. Karen Wheaton's name pops up in connection with various NAR leaders and events. Per 'The Elijah List', Karen Wheaton and The Ramp's 'Chosen' joined NAR leaders Dutch Sheets and Lou Engels for a youth event. They just love those youth events. 
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/23/2008 10:13:59 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
What upsets me, is the film "Jesus Camp" presents a false view of the evangelical church.
It sure does and I cannot blame the non-Christian communities to view Western Christianity as such. When you turn on the TV and 95% of all "Christian" programming is Word of Faith/Latter Rain/Prosperity.
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/24/2008 9:12:15 AM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 536
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
What upsets me, is the film "Jesus Camp" presents a false view of the evangelical church.
It sure does and I cannot blame the non-Christian communities to view Western Christianity as such. When you turn on the TV and 95% of all "Christian" programming is Word of Faith/Latter Rain/Prosperity.
This disgusts me as well. And I talk to people who say. "well, at least people are hearing about Jesus." What?! I'm sorry but they aren't hearing about the right kind of Jesus. I know that sounds snobby and denominational, but I'm talking about the Jesus of the Bible. Not a 'bless me, bless me, bless me' Jesus, but the one who said to deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Me.
_____________________________
Of course thieves hate watch-dogs, and love darkness. It is time that somebody should spring his rattle, and call attention to the way in which God is being robbed of his glory, and man of his hope.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/24/2008 11:39:32 AM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
What upsets me, is the film "Jesus Camp" presents a false view of the evangelical church.
But I don't think it presents a false view of the groups that are connected to "The Ramp" - at least not based on everything else I've seen.
Sure, maybe there was a lot of everyday, mundane stuff at Jesus Camp not a part of the final edited movie, but what was depicted in the worship/teaching tmes was truly scary. I've been involved in children's ministry for years and that film gave me a lot of food for thought regarding the difference between ministering to children and subjecting them to hard-core emotional manipulation.
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/24/2008 1:00:26 PM
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lw9
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quote:
stateofgrace: But I don't think it presents a false view of the groups that are connected to "The Ramp" - at least not based on everything else I've seen.
Totally agreed. After studying Becky Fisher's 'Kids in Ministry' more closely and reading through their own articles, there are many more deeply troubling issues besides what was shown in the film. The abusive manipulation and fear tactics used on those children is absolutely disgusting.
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/27/2008 4:10:45 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
First of all here is there website www.theramp.org
Some pretty disturbing threads, here is one talking about those coming against signs and wonders and "moves of the Spirit" as Lawlessness
and another thread about "their generation" and what they expect and anticipate...
They now talk of things in terms of "Awakening"
it is grievious and sad and God really needs to move to shake any of these kids free because they truely believe that God will make them essentially "superheroes." It is sad but it is where things are headed. Things like Lakeland just bring exposure. Sad. Uhm... the Lawlessness thread referenced nobody in particular. It said that Satan would use the Bible against those who were operating in spiritual authority... just like he did to Jesus. So the offense here is actually unfounded. Considering how many epithets of this nature (decieved/heretic, w/e) are directed against those in the WoF or Signs and Wonders camp, should it really bother you if they feel the same way? Consider that this post is advocating a balance in time spent in the spirit with time spent in biblical study, and it is sound Biblical advice.
Secondly, the thread about "this generation" displays nothing more than an audacious belief in promises in the Bible that are as yet unfulfilled. Combined with the claims the OP makes in the opening, it amounts to a very Charismatic faith. This is not a belief in "superheroes", but a belief in "Greater Works" (John 14:12).quote:
Wow... after reading that lofty description, one would think these specially chosen people of God must be doing some pretty amazing things! And then I watched the video. 'Prophetic Dancing' looks amazingly like a cross between a rehearsed boy band dance routine, aerobics, and a little 'Lord of the Dance' thrown in for good measure. And 'Channeling heaven's rhythmic call to worship' sounds amazingly like mediocre stereo-typical pop music.
What exactly are broken teenagers lining up to receive and experience after watching the stage shows? How does this dance move anyone to repent of their sins or understand that Christ paid for their sins with His blood?? I've since watched other videos of 'Chosen' on youtube. I'm not seeing or hearing the true gospel of Christ - which includes sin, repentance, atonement, faith - being presented in these productions. So you dislike...... interpretive dancing, modern music, and colored lights? What I see is a Christian message in a contextualized form, engineered for a specific subculture. Just as Chinese Opera means absolutely nothing to an American audience (due to the major difference in presentation style), lasers and techno mean practically zilch to anyone who didn't get into the rave scene. Intriguingly, the above quoted comment shows an amazing propensity towards seeker sensitivity that I didn't think existed. There is more to the church than merely preaching salvation. **this is me, not being impressed**quote:
Hey, guess what. If it looks like a rave, and it sounds like a rave... it IS a rave. The theologically deep and reverential lyrics included:
- Mess us up in your presence
- Put your hands in the air, wave them like you just don't care
- Grab your partner dosie do
- You spin me right round Jesus right round like a record Jesus right round round round
- People all over the world join hands, start a love train
I pray the Lord God will open the eyes of the children raised under false Latter Rain doctrine. So you object to this because... it isn't hellenistically stoic? I believe it was Kathy Law who defined a Pharisee as someone "with a paranoic fear that someone, somewhere, might be happy". We use idioms every day, you would think we would get better at spotting them when they appear. How about this for theologically deep? "Jesus loves me, this I know... for the Bible tells me so."-- Karl Barth.quote:
Typical Latter Rain/Dominionist heresy, repackaged to easily influence youth. The same thing goes for "The Call" which is supported by C Peter Wagners's NAR Sox...... aside from the fact that this isnt even close to dominionism in any way, shape, or form... If we were to have a real discussion about what the term "Joel's Army" is actually refering to, we could have a productive conversation here. Until then, God bless.quote:
Notice that you don't even get a few words into it before a connection is made to IHOP. And it's really funny IMO that they're so worried about Rob Bell's influence on people.
EDITED TO ADD:
This was on the second page of that thread. Yep, Todd Bentley's influence lives on. Uhm, the OP didn't go to IHOP-KC. They went to a "House of Prayer here in Milwaukee." This mass-phobia of the House of Prayer reality is really juvenile.quote:
Here is the twisting and manipulation tactic of the enemy at it's best.... the blogger goes on to warn teens between 15-18 years of age that...
"In this lawlessness, there will be those who will try to disprove what God is doing in accordance to the "law".
Satan is looking to use our own Bible against us.
believers everywhere would rather go to the law for information, and the acknowledgement of the Holy Spirit will be negated."
His reference to the law is done in such a way as to open the door to deny any passage of Scripture old or new Testament. Wrong. The use here is making a warning against the idolized form of Sola Scriptura, where people would rather kill each other with scripture than pray for Wisdom and Revelation. Considering that God is infinite and highly powerful, it shouldn't be a big paradigm shift to think that He might operate in a way we don't understand. For some people, however, anything that falls outside of their mental box must not be God. That is what this use of this verse is alluding to.quote:
Heresy R Us....
False prophets Galore... Knee-Jerk reactions...
Pavlov's theory... NEXT!quote:
What makes it worse is that they are preying on impressionable youth. So did Jesus... "Let the little children come unto me, and do not forbid them..."quote:
Sure, maybe there was a lot of everyday, mundane stuff at Jesus Camp not a part of the final edited movie, but what was depicted in the worship/teaching tmes was truly scary. I've been involved in children's ministry for years and that film gave me a lot of food for thought regarding the difference between ministering to children and subjecting them to hard-core emotional manipulation. So you would willing chop down another ministry to downright heresy because of an edited two hours of film? Pardon me for saying it, but that is sad. You just allowed a secular filmmaker to shape you entire view of another Christian group. That isn't healthy.
I have never been to "The Ramp". However, I have to give them credit for at least trying to find God and bring young people with them. I can't say as I'm impressed or surprised with the attacking of them here, rather I have to say that I'm constantly disappointed in the lack of Grace displayed by many when this kind of subject comes up.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/27/2008 8:06:24 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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Adam,
Years of study and documentation of someone being a false prophet is far from being a "knee-jerk" reaction. Facts are facts, Adam. It's not a matter of subjectivism.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/27/2008 8:15:04 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1492
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
What makes it worse is that they are preying on impressionable youth.
quote:
So did Jesus... "Let the little children come unto me, and do not forbid them..."Adam
Not to push some militaristic agenda on them. I stopped sending my daughter to Aquire the Fire/Battle Cry events because of that!
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? - 8/27/2008 8:41:26 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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Besides the militaristic agenda - the rampant (pun intended) quirky doctrine, promotion of unbiblical tenets (mass speaking in tongues, no interpretation.. slain in the spirit, jerking, etc..), promotion of 100% bonafide fals | | |
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