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The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 1:26:30 PM
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rlj
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Someone finally gets what just happened in '09 and how it relates to '08:
quote:
Exactly a year later comes the empirical validation of that skepticism. Virginia -- presumed harbinger of the new realignment, having gone Democratic in '08 for the first time in 44 years -- went red again. With a vengeance. Barack Obama had carried it by six points. The Republican gubernatorial candidate won by 17 -- a 23-point swing. New Jersey went from plus-15 Democratic in 2008 to minus-four in 2009. A 19-point swing.
What happened? The vaunted Obama realignment vanished. In 2009 in Virginia, the black vote was down by 20 percent; the under-30 vote by 50 percent. And as for independents, the ultimate prize of any realignment, they bolted. In both Virginia and New Jersey they'd gone narrowly for Obama in '08. This year they went Republican by a staggering 33 points in Virginia and by an equally shocking 30 points in New Jersey.
White House apologists will say the Virginia Democrat was weak. If the difference between Bob McDonnell and Creigh Deeds was so great, how come when the same two men ran against each other statewide for attorney general four years ago the race was a virtual dead heat? Which made the '09 McDonnell-Deeds rematch the closest you get in politics to a laboratory experiment for measuring the change in external conditions. Run them against each other again when it's Obamaism in action and see what happens. What happened was a Republican landslide.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/05/AR2009110504334.html
I have heard quite a bit of stuff on the right and quite a bit from the left on what happened this year and last year. I believe Charles gets it, totally.
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 1:27:30 PM
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rlj
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Let me add that I don't know that '08 was a one time fluke because I believe that the country is moving to the left, but for this year and time I believe he is right.
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 1:45:08 PM
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AmandaRadarRanger
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I don't know much about Virginia, so I have no opinion. New Jersey was totally due to local conditions. Horrendous property taxes, and a governor who was identified with wall street and who did nothing to fix the problems he said he was going to fix. Believe me, New Jersey is not going to be the next South Carolina anytime soon, so the right wingers can stop dreaming.
And of course the dude didn't address the results of NY23 which was a defeat for both Republicans and the far right, but was mostly just based on the repulsive qualities of a couple of weirdos named Palin and Limbaugh sticking their noses in where they didn't belong.
Nothing to see here really, move along.
< Message edited by AmandaRadarRanger -- 11/13/2009 1:51:54 PM >
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 2:08:34 PM
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AmandaRadarRanger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
And of course the dude didn't address the results of NY23 which was a defeat for both Republicans and the far right, but was mostly just based on the repulsive qualities of a couple of weirdos named Palin and Limbaugh sticking their noses in where they didn't belong.
NY 23 means many things to many people, no one has told me what to think of that one yet. 
What I liked about this piece that I haven't seen (for this election) was the demographics on who did and did not vote and who they voted for. Most importantly the independants who gave the GOP the New Jersey victory. They are the ones who decide elections, not the core people on either side.
Ohio was the same as New Jersey in '06 and it continued to '08 though it was The Big 8 (Bob Taft and the 8 was his approval number his last year) who cemented the win for Strickland. As for whether or not we stay blue it will depend on 3 things - whether or not the Dems can motivate the youth again, how motivated the inner cities are (if you look at an Ohio breakdown you'll find that maybe 10 counties of 88 went Dem and the rest went GOP) and most importantly where do the independents vote.
Yeah, but the indies weren't voting for Christie, they were voting against Corzine, and that makes it a different thing.
< Message edited by AmandaRadarRanger -- 11/13/2009 2:14:51 PM >
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 2:25:27 PM
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Tarox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Biblically, the moral majority out numbers the liberal left by 2/3's and it doesn’t really make a difference in the NY 23 or anywhere, it’s all the same..... If folks would simply get off their backsides and vote, then independents would not make a bit difference in any form.
Care to back up your assertion that the liberals are opposed to the "biblical moral majority"?
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 2:31:05 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tarox
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Biblically, the moral majority out numbers the liberal left by 2/3's and it doesn’t really make a difference in the NY 23 or anywhere, it’s all the same..... If folks would simply get off their backsides and vote, then independents would not make a bit difference in any form.
Care to back up your assertion that the liberals are opposed to the "biblical moral majority"?
Where did I say that?
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 2:45:08 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Greetings
Biblically, the moral majority out numbers the liberal left by 2/3's
LG
Where is that biblically?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"Freedom comes with an educated mind." - Jacqueline Rushing
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 3:24:19 PM
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Tarox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Biblically, the moral majority out numbers the liberal left by 2/3's
You seem to be saying that either the liberals are not moral or not biblical
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 4:31:39 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Greetings
Biblically, the moral majority out numbers the liberal left by 2/3's
LG
Where is that biblically?
Greetings
This is up to the OP... So we can't go into depth...
But… if I am allowed….
The principal as it is written is seen in thirds in the Bible.... and in part ending in (Rev 9:15)…
....but beginning with… what was given in the principal concerning the fall of the son of the morning in the OT. = Lucifer.... who in turn took 1/3 of the angels with him... so the principal is very simple math concerning the moral majority that out numbers the immoral minority by 2/3's
(I mean even before I saved, I knew a liar when I heard one.)
And ever since then… the world has been ruled by the lesser… not the majority
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things… “will I give”… thee, if thou wilt “fall down” (= subtraction)= and worship me. =The 1/3
If those stupid 1/3 in the middle of the 2/3 of folks would simply get off their backsides and vote, independents would not make a bit of difference,
Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot.
... The Middle “is never” blessed,
….And in this fiasco called the Obama administration… whom in turn seems to be attempting to destroy the 3 party systems Beginning in his own party; which actually began with the Judicial system; whereby all 3 were spawned by the founding fathers knowledge of biblical and moral scripture…
The sleeping 1/3 on the right are now waking up to this....and no longer will put up with... or
Strong's G2518 - katheudô 1) yield to sloth and sin
In the likes that are destroying this country
Even though The independent party may no longer be a factor in the future when the 2/3’s come out…The party seems to have a choice to make; 
Either..
To the far left = cold
Or
To the far right = hot
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 4:53:01 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 968
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AmandaRadarRanger
I don't know much about Virginia, so I have no opinion. New Jersey was totally due to local conditions. Horrendous property taxes, and a governor who was identified with wall street and who did nothing to fix the problems he said he was going to fix. Believe me, New Jersey is not going to be the next South Carolina anytime soon, so the right wingers can stop dreaming.
And of course the dude didn't address the results of NY23 which was a defeat for both Republicans and the far right, but was mostly just based on the repulsive qualities of a couple of weirdos named Palin and Limbaugh sticking their noses in where they didn't belong.
Nothing to see here really, move along.
I just heard on Fox that the NY 23rd district is not determined yet. The candidate who won, was it Owens?, may not be the winner and has not yet been whatever they do when they crown the winner. I can't remember what it is called. The lead is down to 3,000 votes now and there are 10,000 absentee ballots which have not been counted yet. Soooo...we'll have to wait and see about that result.
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 4:56:14 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3888
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quote:
To the far left = cold
Or
To the far right = hot
I have no idea how you arrive at that or anyone else for that matter.
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 5:01:46 PM
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tacitus
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There is another thread discussing the NY-23 result. The bottom line is that a Hoffman win at this point is practically a statistic impossibility. I have absolutely no idea why Fox would bother to drag this back up since it gives false hope to their audience where there is none.
As for LoyalGypsy, am I the only one who hasn't the slightest clue what he/she is talking about?
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 5:23:00 PM
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AmandaRadarRanger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
There is another thread discussing the NY-23 result. The bottom line is that a Hoffman win at this point is practically a statistic impossibility. I have absolutely no idea why Fox would bother to drag this back up since it gives false hope to their audience where there is none.
As for LoyalGypsy, am I the only one who hasn't the slightest clue what he/she is talking about?
No....
You are Not.
Many of us have the same.... questions
and are = mystified.
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 5:46:21 PM
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tafkam
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quote:
The bottom line is that a Hoffman win at this point is practically a statistic impossibility. I have absolutely no idea why Fox would bother to drag this back up since it gives false hope to their audience where there is none
Oh, perhaps because it's NEWS? I didn't hear any whining from the left over the umpteen month recount in MN between Coleman and Franken. Or is that only because the end result benefitted your guy?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 5:54:05 PM
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tacitus
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Who's whining?
I merely stated the facts -- Hoffman is highly unlikely to squeeze a 3,000 vote advantage out of 10,000 votes (65% - 35%) when his best result in a county was only 56% or so.
I am perfectly happy for them to count every single vote and let the chips fall where they may. All I am saying is that the chips are heavily stacked against Hoffman at this point. He may flop a royal flush, but it's extremely unlikely.
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 5:55:22 PM
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tafkam
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Personally, I'm not sure we'd be helped if Hoffman won....have you listened to this guy on TV? Definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 5:56:37 PM
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tafkam
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Personally, I'm not sure we'd be helped if Hoffman won....have you listened to this guy on TV? Definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 6:21:52 PM
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tacitus
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None of that makes any sense. NY-23 is supposed to be one of the safest Republican districts in the country and they lost. If independents made any difference at all, then they helped the Democrats win a race they hadn't won in 150 years. Conservatives should have won that election with both hands tied behind their back. Hoffman's challenge messed everything up.
As for the "moral majority." If you mean conservative Christians or the Religious Right, then you're looking at about 20% of Americans, which is about the same as the number of liberals. There are more conservatives, but not all conservatives identify with the "moral majority." After all, only 20% of Americans believe that all abortions should be illegal and that number hasn't changed significantly in 30 years.
If that's not what you meant then i am still at a loss.
< Message edited by tacitus -- 11/13/2009 6:28:00 PM >
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 9:32:38 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1831
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quote:
Nothing to see here really, move along.
I pray this is the stratagy the democrats use to discredit the recent elections. Keep it up.
Lets get real. Obama's election was a novelty. People wanted the first black president.
quote:
Care to back up your assertion that the liberals are opposed to the "biblical moral majority"?
Page 1......to the last page.
quote:
You seem to be saying that either the liberals are not moral or not biblical
Price is Right's.....ding ding ding.
I left NY 23 in 2000. Moved to Florida. While my move helped Hillary win in NY, it also helped Bush win in 2000....wash. Guess I shoulda moved back for this last election.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 10:10:13 PM
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LabGuy
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From: NW Pennsylvania
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
None of that makes any sense. NY-23 is supposed to be one of the safest Republican districts in the country and they lost. If independents made any difference at all, then they helped the Democrats win a race they hadn't won in 150 years. Conservatives should have won that election with both hands tied behind their back. Hoffman's challenge messed everything up.
But the "Republican" candidate was not a conservative. When she dropped out of the race, she endorsed the Democrat for crying out loud! The real conservative ran without major party support (with only some high-profile endorsements) and still almost won. There was definitely a more complicated dynamic going on in NY-23.
-Robb
_____________________________
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. - Genesis 2:24
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RE: The Myth of '08, Demolished - 11/13/2009 11:47:14 PM
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tafkam
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Let's not read too much into Mr. Hoffman's showing, because at the end of the day, he still lost....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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