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Question about Judgement - 8/22/2008 11:48:00 PM
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Love2BMommy
Posts: 12
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I read in Revelations 20 about the judgement of the dead, those whose names are in the Book of Life, and those who aren't. I've also read 1 Corinthians 15 about the natural body dying and the spiritual body being raised. Starting in 1 Cor. 15:51, the Bible says "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed." I've learned from being brought up in a Pentecostal church that the dead in Christ are raised first, not sure about all the Biblical references to that.
My question is, when a Christian dies, where do they go? Do they go to Heaven and get taken out and put back in the ground for the resurrection? Or is there like a holding place for Christian souls until the Second Coming?
Sorry I keep jumping around with my question, I'm just confused. I'd appreciate insight from anyone who's more well-read than me. I'd like scriptural references also, not just opinions.
I appreciate it, and God Bless!
Desiree
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/24/2008 1:49:54 PM
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mvic
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I'd be interested if anyone has scriptural references.
The reality is that we really don't know. Heaven and hell are often mentioned in the Bible, especially by Jesus. But I haven't found references to how we get there, or whether there is a "holding place".
Good questions.
Welcome to the Forum - hope you enjoy it here.
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Visit http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/24/2008 2:22:59 PM
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Sinner-Saint
Posts: 499
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The Difference Between
Paradise and Hades and Heaven and Hell
Jesus had a lot to say about life, but did not say much about Heaven. As far as I know, He is the only one who can tell us about the after life:
JN 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.
Jesus spoke about where the dead go in the parable of Lazarus the beggar.
LK 16:22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
LK 16:25 "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
We have three places named here, a place of comfort, (Paradise) a place of torment (Hades) and the chasm which may be the abyss spoken of in Revelation. All three act as holding places until those who are called are called up.
In John 5:24-5, there is a selective calling. This I associate with the first resurrection when the Dead in Christ rise first. In John 5:28-9, the calling empties everything. This I associate with the second resurrection after the Millennium when Paradise is emptied of those who lived well during the Millennium and Hades gives up all who were ever sent there.
Now we have an important verse in Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
And Jesus had not died at that point, although He had been in Heaven (JN 3:13).
Jesus also was not confined to paradise. He has the keys to death now, and Peter relates something very special here that Jesus did "in the earth."
1PE 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
Now the Greek for the word "preached" actually just means "to make an announcement." We should not think that these imprisoned spirits received the Gospel, or that there is allowance for penance after death in purgatory. That is a pagan idea borrowed from Aristotle.
Who were these spirits? From the day of Noah, they may have been angels, fallen angels:
Gen 6:2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
GE 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
GE 6:5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become...
I wonder if the chasm isn't the abyss where Satan will be imprisoned for a thousand years. This same abyss which is opened in the first Woe of God's Wrath: the fifth Trumpet revealed after the seventh Seal is broken and the Scroll can be read (with God's decrees of Wrath written on it). A beast also comes out of the abyss to kill the Two Witnesses which are part of the seventieth 'seven' of the end-times.
So we have three places which can hold spiritual entities (people's souls good and bad, and demons), but I can name a fourth holding place from the fifth Seal of Revelation: the place right below the altar in Heaven where those who are slain for the Word of God and their testimony.
Now to back up the idea that we don't go to Heaven right away is the fact that with the first Resurrection (Dan 12:1, MT 24:31, John 5:24-25, Rev 7:9 and 20:4-5) Jesus comes back halfway to take us to where He is as He said:
JN 14:1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going."
When Jesus comes, Paul says this:
1 TH 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
If we are those "asleep in Christ" (because God is not the God of the dead but of the living) rise up and go with Jesus to the place He ascended to in Acts 1:11 - where is it that they rose from - the grave?
No, it is from Paradise. Jesus did not say to the thief that they would be in their individual graves, but together! The soul is not confined to the perishable body after death.
Paradise is a place of comfort for the believer. Some place where they may truly "rest in peace" until the time God's trumpet call awakens them and they join Jesus on the cloud as He gathers them up and leads them together to Heaven (the wheat is "led together" into the barn in the parable of the wheat and tares in the Greek).
In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus tells us that the Elect will be gathered from the earth and from the ends of the heavens. This essentially agrees with Paul's added information that the Dead in Christ rise first. From the ends of the Heavens would be from Paradise: the first level of Heaven.
Now don't get too hung up on words about Paradise in the Bible. Heaven is paradise too, but I would differentiate Paradise from Heaven in this instance, just as I differentiate Hades from Hell where the latter is the second death: the lake of fire because God can destroy souls.
MT 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
HEB 10:31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
< Message edited by Sinner-Saint -- 8/24/2008 2:31:47 PM >
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/24/2008 4:34:09 PM
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TheDayDrawsNigh
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The best answer to this question is found in 2 Corinthians 5:8 . When truly saved people die (God calls this 'sleep' for true believers - ie. John 11:11 & 26) they go immediately in their soul existence directly to God in Heaven. (eg. Luke 23:43) Then at the rapture they return with Jesus ( 1 Thes 3:13) to recieve their new bodies. 1 Cor 15:42-44,52 Also look at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/24/2008 7:27:30 PM
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Sinner-Saint
Posts: 499
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheDayDrawsNigh
When truly saved people die they go immediately in their soul existence directly to God in Heaven. Then at the rapture they return with Jesus to recieve their new bodies.
Oh, that's why Jesus comes back for us, and the dead rise first to be with Jesus on the clouds.
Hmmm, we seem to have incongruent statements from the Bible.
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/24/2008 11:15:38 PM
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Love2BMommy
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The reason I'm so curious about all of this now, is that we all know the 2nd coming is closer than its ever been, of course. Also, my mom joined this bible study type group with people from a 7th Day Adventist church. She's told me some of the things they believe about death, heaven, and hell and it all seems so weird to me. If there's anyone with this forum who is Seventh Day Adventist, I hope I'm not offending you, because I still don't know what's really right anymore.
She says that they believe that when someone dies now, they're dead, the soul is "asleep", or dead and that when Jesus comes back, then they are resurrected. I think that's how I understood what she told me. They also don't believe in the rapture. They don't believe that a sinner spends eternity in hell either. They believe that after the second death in the lake of fire, then that's it, they're just dead. And that however bad you were of a sinner determines how long you burn in the lake of fire.
She says she's not thinking of changing to their church, but she's fascinated now because most of what they tell her, they back up with scripture.
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/25/2008 8:55:15 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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As far as Seventh Day Adventists, some consider them a cult. As far as the root issue concerning them, I think they're right: Saturday IS the Sabbath. The Roman Catholic Church has propagated a great sin in making Sunday holy. Of course, they also break the second Commandment and have deified Mary which are also great sins. The Seventh Day Adventists are correct in opposing the Roman Catholic Church. However, in finer aspects of their theology, we cannot fulfill the Law, although I think Christians would do well to keep it as best they can.
David found God's Love in the Law (Ps 119:97), but the Law does not give Life (Rom 7:9-10). Only through faith in Jesus can we be saved from our sin, because all of us have transgressed against the Law (Rom 8:2).
Concerning death: Jesus taught about Paradise and Hades in Luke (16:19-31). This is our only glimpse into the afterlife in the Bible. None of those who were "awakened" ever tell us what happened to them, or where they were, or what they saw.
It is from the first realm of Paradise that I think those who are "asleep" are resurrected on the Day of the Lord (Isa 2:12; Eze 32:7; Joel 2:31; Am 5:18; Zep 1:7; Zec 14:6; MT 24:29-31; 1Co 1:8; 2Th 2:2; 2Pe 3:10). I agree with Calvin that they do not "sleep" per se though. Paul says (against some of his later teaching which he watered down for beginners) that we will be resurrected (1Co 15:12-24) from the rest we will have in Paradise when Jesus comes on the Day of Christ, which is the same as the Day of the Lord (Php 1:6; 10).
Now the Day of the Lord is a specific day and God has told us much about it. I have put together from prophecy a sequence of events all foretold to happen around the Day of the Lord and I am convinced it will literally be two days long like Rosh ha-Shanah (Ex 23:16a): the Jewish New Year which is the only two-day Holy day.
I think the Day of the Lord is when Jesus comes back for us and then begins His Wrath upon the wicked. I think this Day comes during the one 'seven' which was foretold and still has not materialized. Specifically, I think this Day comes at some nebulous time (which none of us can know ahead of time-Mt 24:26) after the midpoint of the one 'seven' (Mt 24:15; 21-22; 29-31).
The Day of the Lord begins to bring the Harvest home to Heaven (Mt 13:30; Rev 14:14-16). This process is finished when the last of the martyrs dies and the last two are the Two Witnesses who precede Christ's parousia (Mal 4:5) in the second half of the one 'seven' (Rev 11:3) and die at the end of it (Rev 11:7-12). When they are made alive in Heaven (rev 20:4b) this completes the first Resurrection (Rev 20:5) which includes the Church so that the Gentiles are brought in first.
Then begins (after two other short time periods - Dan 12:11-12) the Millennium. I think this is part of God's plan of Salvation for the Jews (Rom 2:10). It is a time when Jesus rules the earth (Dan 2:44) and the everyone will know Jesus is Lord (Isa 11:9). During this time, the earth is peaceful (Zec 9:10) and we are in Heaven (Dan 7:13, 27; MT 7:21, 8:11; 2Co 5:1; Php 3:20; 1Pe 1:4; Rev 7:9) where Jesus has prepared a place for us (Jn 14:2-3). Some of us will also rule in God's Camp (Rev 2:26): Jerusalem (Rev 20:9). But the Millennium is so that all of Israel will be saved (Rom 11:26).
At the end of the Millennium, the utter futility of Satan will be proved (Rev 20:8, 10) and all life will cease on the earth as well as the earth itself (Rev 21:1). At this second Resurrection, all of Paradise (those who lived well during the Millennium) and Hades will be emptied (Dan 12:2; Mt 25:31-46; Jn 5:28-29; Rev 20:11-15). This brings everyone else to Heaven to be judged. The whole world from all of time (excluding those in the first Resurrection) will be arrayed before Jesus and God the Father and they will acknowledge Jesus is Lord. The Apostles will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (Mt 19:28) and those in the Book of Life will enter eternal life as the Sheep. The wicked Goats will be consigned to Hell. This is the second death.
Backed up with Scripture too...
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/28/2008 9:44:39 PM
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eschatologist
Posts: 66
Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Love2BMommy
I read in Revelations 20 about the judgement of the dead, those whose names are in the Book of Life, and those who aren't. I've also read 1 Corinthians 15 about the natural body dying and the spiritual body being raised. Starting in 1 Cor. 15:51, the Bible says "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed." I've learned from being brought up in a Pentecostal church that the dead in Christ are raised first, not sure about all the Biblical references to that.
My question is, when a Christian dies, where do they go? Do they go to Heaven and get taken out and put back in the ground for the resurrection? Or is there like a holding place for Christian souls until the Second Coming?
Sorry I keep jumping around with my question, I'm just confused. I'd appreciate insight from anyone who's more well-read than me. I'd like scriptural references also, not just opinions.
I appreciate it, and God Bless!
Desiree
IThessolonians 4:14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him." All the Spirits of those who have passed on before the rapture will come back with Jesus at His second coming to get their new resurrected bodies. This means they went to heaven when they died since Jesus brings them back with Him at His second coming. They are spirits in Heaven.
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."(Thank-you Jesus!) IThessolonians 4:15-17)
Revelations 6:9-11 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long oh Lord, Holy and true, dost thou not Judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." Here we see the spirits of people who were killed for their faith, or martyed, up in Heaven. They're obviously in Heaven because they are talking to the Lord and they were given white robes to wear. If you read throughout the book of revelations, pretty much everyone in Heaven is wearing these white robes. These verse are specifically talking about martyrs, but if Martrys go to heaven when they die then it would stand to reason that all other saved born again Christians who have passed on went to heaven as well.
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/29/2008 10:15:17 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1130
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Love2BMommy
I read in Revelations 20 about the judgement of the dead, those whose names are in the Book of Life, and those who aren't. I've also read 1 Corinthians 15 about the natural body dying and the spiritual body being raised. Starting in 1 Cor. 15:51, the Bible says "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed." I've learned from being brought up in a Pentecostal church that the dead in Christ are raised first, not sure about all the Biblical references to that.
My question is, when a Christian dies, where do they go? Do they go to Heaven and get taken out and put back in the ground for the resurrection? Or is there like a holding place for Christian souls until the Second Coming?
Sorry I keep jumping around with my question, I'm just confused. I'd appreciate insight from anyone who's more well-read than me. I'd like scriptural references also, not just opinions.
I appreciate it, and God Bless!
Desiree
2 Corinthians 5:7-9
"We have confident and hopeful courage and are pleased rather to be away from home, out of the body, and be at home with the Lord. Therefore, whether we are at home [on earth away from Him] or away from home [and with Him], we are constantly ambitious and strive earnestly to be pleasing to Him."
When a Christian dies they go to be with the Lord. That's really all ya need, and all ya need to know. 
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/29/2008 8:41:51 PM
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eschatologist
Posts: 66
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Love2BMommy
The reason I'm so curious about all of this now, is that we all know the 2nd coming is closer than its ever been, of course. Also, my mom joined this bible study type group with people from a 7th Day Adventist church. She's told me some of the things they believe about death, heaven, and hell and it all seems so weird to me. If there's anyone with this forum who is Seventh Day Adventist, I hope I'm not offending you, because I still don't know what's really right anymore.
She says that they believe that when someone dies now, they're dead, the soul is "asleep", or dead and that when Jesus comes back, then they are resurrected. I think that's how I understood what she told me. They also don't believe in the rapture. They don't believe that a sinner spends eternity in hell either. They believe that after the second death in the lake of fire, then that's it, they're just dead. And that however bad you were of a sinner determines how long you burn in the lake of fire.
She says she's not thinking of changing to their church, but she's fascinated now because most of what they tell her, they back up with scripture.
[/quote
The early church started using Sunday, the first day of the week, as their day of rest and fellowship instead of Saturday, the Sabbath, the last day of the week. The reason for this is because Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week and His death for our sins and then rising from the dead is the basis for our Faith. The 7th day adventists seem to think that the Catholic church instituted Sunday as the day of fellowship and worship because they didn't know any better, they were a bunch of nincompoops who didn't know that Saturday was the real Sabbath so they mistakenly made Sunday the Sabbath. This is ridiculous. The real reason, as I said, was because it followed more our Christian Faith since Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. The 7th day adventists are a throwback to the old legalistic laws of Moses which were done away with when Jesus instituted His new covenant of grace and redemptioon and sanctification through His blood. As Hebrews 8:13 says, "In that He saith a new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
In Hebrews 7:16 regarding Jesus it says, "Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life." In my opinion trying to keep the Saturday as the Sabbath (since technically it is the real Sabbath) represents being obedient to the law of a carnal commandment that vanished away 2,000 years ago. Whereas using Sunday (the first day of the week when Jesus rose from the dead) as our day of rest and fellowship represents the power of an endless life which Jesus gives to everybody who believes in Him.
Regarding your first question about "soul sleep", this is totally unscriptural. There are numerous examples in the bible of Spirits of people who have passed on still very active and living in the spirit world. If you read Hebrews 11 it talks about all of God's men and women of Faith who lived during the old testament period who died in faith looking forward to the promise of everlasting life through Jesus. Then in Hebrews 12 verse 1 it says, 'Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, Let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us." Here he's saying that the spirits of all these old testament Saints are watching us and witnessing our activities and cheering us on, so to speak. They're not asleep in some grave somewhere.
Then in Hebrews 12 :22-24 it says we are come unto the city of the living God, an innumerable company of angels, the general assmbly of all God's saved children and to
the spirits of Just men made perfect. They're all together in Heaven.
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RE: Question about Judgement - 8/31/2008 10:38:03 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 404
Joined: 8/23/2007
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Shalom, Love2BMommy.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Love2BMommy
I read in Revelations 20 about the judgement of the dead, those whose names are in the Book of Life, and those who aren't. I've also read 1 Corinthians 15 about the natural body dying and the spiritual body being raised. Starting in 1 Cor. 15:51, the Bible says "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed." I've learned from being brought up in a Pentecostal church that the dead in Christ are raised first, not sure about all the Biblical references to that.
My question is, when a Christian dies, where do they go? Do they go to Heaven and get taken out and put back in the ground for the resurrection? Or is there like a holding place for Christian souls until the Second Coming?
Sorry I keep jumping around with my question, I'm just confused. I'd appreciate insight from anyone who's more well-read than me. I'd like scriptural references also, not just opinions.
I appreciate it, and God Bless!
Desiree
I'm going to give you a different type of answer:
First, allow me to introduce you to some simple terms:
The Hebrew word usually translated "soul" is "nefesh." ("N" represents the Hebrew letter "nun," "f" represents the "fei," the undotted "pei," and the "sh" represents the "shin.") The Greek word usually translated "soul" is "psuchee" (I use a double "ee" to represent the Greek letter "eta" and a single "e" to represent the Greek letter "epsilon," and of course the "ps" represents the "psi," the "u" represents the "upsilon," and the "ch" represents the "chi.") BOTH words mean "animated being" or literally "one that breathes."
The Hebrew word usually translated "spirit" is "ruach." ("R" represents the Hebrew letter "reish," the sound between the "u" and the "a" is the Hebrew letter "alef," and the "ch" represents the Hebrew letter "cheit.") The Greek word usually translated "spirit" is "pneuma." ("P" represents the Greek letter "pi," "n" represents the Greek letter "nu," "e," as before, represents the Greek letter "epsilon," "u" represents the Greek letter "upsilon," "m" represents the Greek letter "mu," and the "a" represents the Greek letter "alpha.") BOTH words literally mean "wind; forceful breath; a blowing."
Thus, without going into the secondary meanings of these words, we can simply conclude that a "soul" ("one that breathes") is a combination of a "body" (Hebrew: "guf" or "geviya'"; Greek: "sooma," where "oo" represents the Greek letter "omega") and its "spirit" ("forceful breath").
Therefore, even if the "spirit" is an allegory to the "immaterial part of a human being," the "soul" is a combination of the "body" and the "spirit." A human being's "soul" is INCOMPLETE without BOTH the "breath" or the "spirit" and the person's "body!" That's why the Resurrection is so important!
Now, consider the following verses from the book of Acts, a passage from Kefa's ("Cephas's" or Peter's) message which occurred AFTER both the Resurrection of Yeshua` (Jesus) and AFTER His Ascension (one of which should have been when Yeshua` supposedly "led captivity captive" [Eph. 4:8]):
Acts 2:22-36
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
KJV
Obviously, we are reading about David's body still being in the grave and not having been resurrected, yet. If we are going to define the "spirit" as his "breath," then he will not have his breath back until he is resurrected. If we are going to define the "spirit" as the "immaterial part of a human being" that is analogous to "breath," then he will not be WHOLE--he will not be a "soul"--until the immaterial part of him is brought back and joined to his body in the resurrection.
Now, since I see no difference between how "OT saints" are justified by God and how "NT saints" are justified by God (both are "saved" [1] by grace, [2] through faith, and [3] with blood), except in the direction through time each looked to the Messiah's Sacrifice of His own body, then I see no advantage a "NT saint" or a "Christian" has over an "OT saint." BOTH are in the grave until the resurrection.
IF we go to "heaven" (actually the New Jerusalem) at all, only our "spirits" go; we are not "souls" until our "spirits" are re-united with our bodies.
Now, the two major passages that are viewed as the Resurrection are from the Resurrection Chapter that you have already noted (I Cor. 15) and I Thess. 4.
Here they are:
1 Cor 15:40-58
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
KJV
1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
KJV
Both of these passages are best understood and appreciated in the Greek. Both bodies are PHYSICAL! The "natural body" or the body that is "earthy" or "terrestrial" is a "psuchikos sooma" and is corruptible (decaying) and mortal (able to die); the "spiritual body" or the body that is "heavenly" or "celestial" is a "pneumatikos sooma" and is incorruptible (not given to decay) and immortal (never able to die again). What's interesting is that a "psuchikos sooma" is a "breathing body." A "pneumatikos sooma" is a "BLASTING body!" The difference between the two is found in their strengths! The natural body is weak; the spiritual body is powerful!
Consider the verses about our Lord Himself:
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
The first man Adam was made a "living soul," a "living breather." The last Adam, Yeshua` (Jesus), was made a "quickening spirit," a LIFE-GIVING BLASTER!" His body was NOT immaterial; His body could be touched and handled; He could eat fish and bread; He could be seen; He could talk to His students; and He breathed upon His students! He was physical, but He was BEYOND being just "one who breathes!" He is THE TRUE SUPERMAN, if you'll pardon the term!
I hope this has answered your questions, and not just raised more than it's answered.
Retrobyter
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RE: Question about Judgement - 9/3/2008 10:46:34 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1975
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Good teaching Retrobyter...
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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