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Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 4:55:36 PM
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armydude
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I'm not sure where to put this or even how to word this. I won't go to deep into the details, but I help maintain the website at my church. This is on a volunteer basis (I volunteered) by updating whenever there's a new "event" going on. We rarely have those, so it's not as though it is hard. The website had the pictures of the former pastor on it as well as his wife. The new pastor asked me about putting up a new picture of him and his wife. I said, "Sure, just get me a picture." That was in June. I just got the picture a week ago tomorrow and the pastor's wife tells me on Sunday that I need to shut the site down or update it. She doesn't hold an office in the church (that I'm aware of) so to me this was out of line for her to do. She didn't ask about the website. She didn't offer advice. She just told me to shut it down or update it.
I'm ex military, and to me that seems like a commander's spouse giving me an order. That don't work with me. So what do I do?
(BTW the site is updated as much as I can make it. I'm waiting on one more picture.)
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No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 5:00:11 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
Chain of command, bro. And she ain't in it. Just disregard, and move on.
Easy answer, but it could get complicated. I've asked to talk to the pastor about it one on one. I need to know if she actually has a voice in this or if she's just spouting off. If she's just spouting off, I can ignore that. But if she actually has any authority to tell me to do something, somebody shoulda said something by now.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 5:10:47 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2913
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
Chain of command, bro. And she ain't in it. Just disregard, and move on.
Easy answer, but it could get complicated. I've asked to talk to the pastor about it one on one. I need to know if she actually has a voice in this or if she's just spouting off. If she's just spouting off, I can ignore that. But if she actually has any authority to tell me to do something, somebody shoulda said something by now.
How about a twist on the easy answer? I used to get a lot of conflicting direction at work. I usually just let my boss know what was asked of me outside the normal boundaries & lines of command and what I did to either accomodate it or not accomodate it. That way, the control is mine and the chain of command is preserved, but by keeping my boss informed I avoided getting blindsided later. That way, I also didn't have to deal with whether or not someone really had the authority or not. As long as my boss was informed and got the chance to opine (whether she took the chance or not), things worked smoothly.
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 5:27:55 PM
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pbaribeault
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Sometimes this is a matter of interpretation
"You should take that thing down." and "That website needs to be shut down." Are things anybody can say, and in some tones, it's just an opinion and not an order... Like saying "That piano needs to be tuned." or "You should buy some extra crayons for Sunday School."
But other tones of voice really do mean, "Take it down." At which point you say, "Until someone in authority speaks to me about it, I think I'll come to my own conclusions about what to do with the area I manage. I will take your opinion into consideration, though." Which can get snippish, but at least it's clear and open. She has to either respond, "I am in authority" or "I'm sorry I mentioned it." and then you'll know where you stand.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 5:29:21 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
Sometimes this is a matter of interpretation
"You should take that thing down." and "That website needs to be shut down." Are things anybody can say, and in some tones, it's just an opinion and not an order... Like saying "That piano needs to be tuned." or "You should buy some extra crayons for Sunday School."
But other tones of voice really do mean, "Take it down." At which point you say, "Until someone in authority speaks to me about it, I think I'll come to my own conclusions about what to do with the area I manage. I will take your opinion into consideration, though." Which can get snippish, but at least it's clear and open. She has to either respond, "I am in authority" or "I'm sorry I mentioned it." and then you'll know where you stand.
When it was said, I figured my best option was to nod and walk away. I nodded to respond, so I didn't ignore her. But I also knew that anything I said would have not been the right thing. It angered me. A lot.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 5:34:23 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2913
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
Sometimes this is a matter of interpretation
"You should take that thing down." and "That website needs to be shut down." Are things anybody can say, and in some tones, it's just an opinion and not an order... Like saying "That piano needs to be tuned." or "You should buy some extra crayons for Sunday School."
But other tones of voice really do mean, "Take it down." At which point you say, "Until someone in authority speaks to me about it, I think I'll come to my own conclusions about what to do with the area I manage. I will take your opinion into consideration, though." Which can get snippish, but at least it's clear and open. She has to either respond, "I am in authority" or "I'm sorry I mentioned it." and then you'll know where you stand.
When it was said, I figured my best option was to nod and walk away. I nodded to respond, so I didn't ignore her. But I also knew that anything I said would have not been the right thing. It angered me. A lot.
Understandably. IMO, you see this kind of behavior in a lot of organizations with a heavy volunteer or member emphasis (churches, golf clubs, non-profits...) Everyone seems to feel entitled to comment on everything else and it's difficult to know exactly how to respond.
For the record, in my old church we would have considered that the domain of the elder board. The board would have been a bit put out if you had taken the website down on the pastor's wife's order. We would have been upset with the pastor's wife if she'd requested it without asking us. We would allow the pastor to make that call, but would have been expected to be informed of it.
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 5:40:33 PM
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pbaribeault
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Other good phrases I learned that emphasize that you are taking the comment as non-binding personal opinion (without being too direct):
"Really? That's not the way I've thought it through."
"That's interesting."
"I understand."
"I see what you mean."
"Thanks for letting me know what you think."
"I know other people feel that way too."
"Thanks. Communication is a good thing in situations like this."
I have one of these Pastor's wives too... and I got good and cold-shouldered for even asking what leadership role I was supposed to understand her to have.
The Pastor & Elders did answer me though, and now I am free to think of her as a congregational leader, a member of the pastoral 'team' (husband & wife). She is free to advise and work with in most areas of Church life, but has no standing authority. She is responsible and accountable to the Pastor as her supervisor. It's not exactly the NT model, but it's workable.
This understanding helped me greatly, because I like lines, and I don't resent her involvement and 'advice' when I know where it's coming from and how to take it. I also know what do do if I need to talk to her supervisor about her actions, that it's OK, organizationally, not like just talking to her husband about her.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 9:11:46 PM
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DSmitty
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Yeah, I would definitely talk to the pastor. But ask God for wisdom about how you speak to him about it because you are talking to him about his wife and he may get defensive, depending on how it's presented.
I think I would tell him what she said and just say that you just wanted to run it by him before you acted on it. That's pretty non-threatening and it opens the door of opportunity for him to tell you if he wants to say that you should always go with what she says. If he doesn't tell you that straight out, then you have no reason to assume that to be the case.
It sounds to me like she was just speaking out of irk about the site not being updated. Which isn't your fault... I build websites too and I know what it's like when people more or less expect you to pull a rabbit out of the hat. You're waiting on them for content and they just want you to make something wonderful for them without being bothered. I walked away from a job recently because that was going on and let them find someone else.
Who knows what was going on... maybe she was just in a bad mood that day - maybe she's always in a bad mood. I don't know her so obviously I couldn't say. But it goes back to something that I recently ranted about in a different thread, and that is that you should treat volunteers with respect because if they're not being paid for their services then they're the ones doing the favor. We serve as unto the Lord, but still, a workman is worthy of his hire even if all he's getting out of it is some gratitude as opposed to being treated disrespectfully.
_____________________________
Men are God's methods. And while men are looking for better methods, God is looking for better men. -AW Tozer
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 10:41:01 PM
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Sadey
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Is it usual for the pastor's wife to have the same authority as the pastor?
Are there a lot of churches that expect the wife to have the same authority as pastor? I'm not familiar with this chain of command.
However I do know that a well placed Hmmmm, can deflect a bossy person.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 10:42:04 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sadey
Is it usual for the pastor's wife to have the same authority as the pastor?
Are there a lot of churches that expect the wife to have the same authority as pastor? I'm not familiar with this chain of command.
I've never seen it. Like I said, to me that's the same as a military commander's spouse giving a soldier orders. It don't fit.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/12/2008 10:45:44 PM
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Sadey
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This could get interesting. If you need any hints on how to act dense, let me know. I have it down to a fine science 
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 8:13:54 AM
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revbob4God
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Okay, part of this may sound like it came from left field, but here goes.
Maybe there is an issue with the Pastor's wife having her picture taken. Took a long time for them to get you her picture. Or so I think I read. Hmmm. I would speak with the Pastor.
I can empathize, though. Occasionally, some of them get a little too big for their britches. A Pastor friend of mine e mailed me the other day, said his wife got into a near cat fight with one of the ladies at church because she told the lady, an avid gardener and floral arranger. that she wanted to stop putting flower arrangements in discreet places around the church.
If you were a member of my church, I'd say just come on over to my garage and sit a spell.
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For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 8:15:04 AM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: revbob4God
If you were a member of my church, I'd say just come on over to my garage and sit a spell.
If you weren't several hundred miles away, that would be tempting.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 1:19:36 PM
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doinkdom
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Why not just ask her husband, the pastor for help with something that has taken you by surprise.
You were not aware that the website needed anything to be done other than a new picture and are kinda confused as to why his wife would think otherwise by her comments.
Did you miss a memo? Are there events you are not being made aware of that should have been posted, etc.
Enlisting his help to understand imo, is the best option.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 1:27:41 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
Easy answer, but it could get complicated. I've asked to talk to the pastor about it one on one. I need to know if she actually has a voice in this or if she's just spouting off. If she's just spouting off, I can ignore that. But if she actually has any authority to tell me to do something, somebody shoulda said something by now.
Armydide my friend, be very very careful as this is the stuff that Church splits are made of.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 5:13:11 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16922
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
Easy answer, but it could get complicated. I've asked to talk to the pastor about it one on one. I need to know if she actually has a voice in this or if she's just spouting off. If she's just spouting off, I can ignore that. But if she actually has any authority to tell me to do something, somebody shoulda said something by now.
Armydide my friend, be very very careful as this is the stuff that Church splits are made of.
Thanks
RC
I'm being very careful. The site is updated now and I've decided to ask the pastor to please have a meeting with all of the ministers so it can be ironed out as to who does what and reports to whom. That way I'm not pointing fingers. In the meeting I plan to say, "So this is final? This is who I report to?"
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 5:56:00 PM
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mvic
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May I suggest you take with you at the meeting a short report showing the number of hits your website has.
I manage the website for our church and my Web Host provider gives me these reports on a daily basis - so I know how many hits, when, which countries etc ...
This information could prove useful. Then innocently ask the pastor: when do you want me to shut the site down? Tomorrow? End of week? When?
If he acts surprised, explain innocently that you thought he wanted it shut down - as his wife told you to do.
I find that acting innocent helps me a lot in tricky situations.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 6:57:15 PM
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BibleL7
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Yea seems like a no win situation when dealing with some people it is a good idea to get a clear chain of command. Actually in many cases the administrators would have more say on this than the Pastor or wife. Of course it does also take some time to get used to a new Pastor and wife. Some churches consider her to be first lady others consider her just a wife of a Pastor. This may be just a time that she was irked about the factor of her pic not being up yet when somebody mentioned it to her. Sometimes in change of leadership there are people who tend to compare everything to how the former pastor did things and she may have had a bad day of hearing such comments. Give a little slack for it. But is good to know how the chain of command works particularly with new leadership. Do remember that even pastors and pastors wives have bad days now and then. We are all sinners saved by grace.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 7:09:28 PM
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hjemerson
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I would do what you were thinking having a staff meeting have a update on how the site is going and how they would like to see it grow getting this guildine will help all in advance. Just make a gently mention of the wife comment , as a any member of the church may have ideals! Good luck!!
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/13/2008 11:03:35 PM
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armydude
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Update: I talked it over and we came to the conclusion that I keep doing things the way I've been doing them. If the pastor has a problem with my methods, he'll let me know. The pastor's wife has no authority in this situation.
I was advised to pray for her though. I think that's the best idea.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Pastors wife speaking for him? - 8/14/2008 5:49:25 AM
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mvic
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Thanx for the update.
You didn't give us your church's website URL so we can visit.
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