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House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 4:37:17 PM
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tafkam
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I love this...apparently there is quite a move in DC among some to add an amendment to the healthcare bill that would require Senators and Congressmen to be subject to the same healthcare they're trying to foist on the rest of us.
HERE
AND HERE
Not surprisingly, our wonderful elected officials aren't very happy about this. Expect this amendment, and others like it, to be soundly shot down.
Doesn't the fact that they don't want to have to stand in line like the rest of us speak volumes about the disaster that this "healthcare reform" is?
And yes, I know I posted from some conservative sites, but if our leftist friends can quote from MediaMorons and DailyKooks, then it stands to reason that right leaning sites should be considered just as valid...
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Tafkam
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 4:46:02 PM
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TheosCentric
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Another HERE
That's from here in SC, Wilson's home state.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 4:46:50 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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To get this out of the way, I'm a conservative and have voted Republican at the national level since 1980.
How does the public option threaten you?
I'm currently paying $7,685 a year (to go up again next month) out of my pocket for medical insurance since I'm not working for a deep pocketed employer - and that has grown from $5,280 in 2006. If the threat of people going with a public option will make the greedy insurance companies get competitive, people like me or in worse shape are willing to listen to the dems for a change because the repubs seem to only be interested in the insurance companies and fat businesses.
Edited to correct month to year!
< Message edited by Eutychus -- 11/4/2009 5:12:45 PM >
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 4:53:36 PM
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tafkam
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If the public option is so attractive, then why aren't Pelosi, Reid and the rest willing to sign up for it themselves?
Because they know it will result in higher costs, longer waits, and inevitably, rationing of care. This has been the case every time this sort of government run plan has been tried, so why should we magically believe that it's going to work this time?
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 4:54:26 PM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
If the threat of people going with a public option will make the greedy insurance companies get competitive,
The "greedy insurance companies" would be forced to be more competitive if the feds would let them compete across state lines.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 4:56:59 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
If the threat of people going with a public option will make the greedy insurance companies get competitive,
The "greedy insurance companies" would be forced to be more competitive if the feds would let them compete across state lines.
But left to themselves they haven't done a thing except jack up prices and rake in the cash while the rest of the economy is in the toilet. I do not trust the insurance companies to do a single thing unless boxed into a corner.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 4:57:17 PM
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tafkam
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Eutychus, let me ask you this, in all sincerity....you actually believe that your costs will go DOWN if the government provides your healthcare?
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Tafkam
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 4:59:09 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Eutychus, let me ask you this, in all sincerity....you actually believe that your costs will go DOWN if the government provides your healthcare?
They have ONLY gone up so far. What am I to think, that the republicans are going to finally do something, anything, to help people like me that finds themselves at the bottom of the food chain?
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:01:57 PM
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tafkam
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That's not what I asked.
Never mind the fact that outfits such as the CBO are confirming that healthcare costs are going to go up under Obama-Care.
And how about the significant percentage of healthcare providers that will shut their doors if ObamaCare passes? Nobody in DC even seems to be considering what effect that will have.
My wife is a nurse and assures me that we will see a LOT of doctors simply retire rather than have to operate under a government drivien healthcare system.
You still think costs and availability are going to improve?
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:02:39 PM
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solo_soprano23
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
To get this out of the way, I'm a conservative and have voted Republican at the national level since 1980.
How does the public option threaten you?
I'm currently paying $7,685 a month (to go up again next month) out of my pocket for medical insurance since I'm not working for a deep pocketed employer - and that has grown from $5,280 in 2006. If the threat of people going with a public option will make the greedy insurance companies get competitive, people like me or in worse shape are willing to listen to the dems for a change because the repubs seem to only be interested in the insurance companies and fat businesses.
SNAP!
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:06:30 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I'm currently paying $7,685 a month (to go up again next month) out of my pocket for medical insurance since I'm not working for a deep pocketed employer - and that has grown from $5,280 in 2006.
I am hoping that's either a typo, or your annual premium.
Annual, not monthly. Sorry, I was thinking about the figures down both ways but wrote out my annual cost.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:10:55 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
My wife is a nurse and assures me that we will see a LOT of doctors simply retire rather than have to operate under a government drivien healthcare system.
My wife is a retired nurse that lost all her insurance when she retired (meaning nothing but a meager 401K she can't touch until age 67) and we're in this boat together. A LOT of doctors are too used to money coming in to pay for their expensive toys that I could never afford to retire.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:12:31 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1538
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
To get this out of the way, I'm a conservative and have voted Republican at the national level since 1980.
How does the public option threaten you?
I'm currently paying $7,685 a month (to go up again next month) out of my pocket for medical insurance since I'm not working for a deep pocketed employer - and that has grown from $5,280 in 2006. If the threat of people going with a public option will make the greedy insurance companies get competitive, people like me or in worse shape are willing to listen to the dems for a change because the repubs seem to only be interested in the insurance companies and fat businesses.
Your last statement is not true at all. In fact, it is completely false!
The fact is that Republicans HAVE tried to introduce sensible plans that do not steal our freedoms; but, would dramatically increase competition and lower costs.
The fact is that EVERYONE realizes that we need to do something about medical costs and some conservatives have introduced bills to address the problems. Unfortunately, the Dems are in control and a Reublican bill goes NOWHERE these days.
The Cato Institute has addressed this topic at length.
http://healthcare.cato.org/
But, the bigger question that you asked is, "How does the public option threaten you."
It is no lie that I fully understand that a public option takes the decision of life and death out of the hands of families and puts them into the hands of an unknown bean-counting bureaucrat. The reason I understand that reality is that I actually did help write the prototype software for making a computer based decision. The metrics for pulling the plug are high right now. But, metrics can be moved and the qualifiers of today may not be the qualifiers of tomorrow. Here is a link that validates my claim. Go to National Coordinating Center to find me listed.
The creep that I mentioned was true of this study. Here is an earlier paper that sets out very different goals than the conclusions of some years later at the end of the study.
You see, putting control into the hands of an administration you trust now is short-sighted. That is because no party or administration lasts forever. It is MUCH better to hold your destiny in your own hands.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/4/2009 5:35:09 PM >
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:19:27 PM
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Eutychus
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Why wasn't health care important when the republicans were in power?
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:32:27 PM
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tafkam
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Perhaps because 80% of Americans were and are perfectly happy with the healthcare we have?
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Tafkam
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:36:35 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Why wasn't health care important when the republicans were in power?
Because they, like the dems are politicians and idiots first and our servants last.
It's not about parties. It's about bringing the government back under OUR control so that politicians do OUR will and not the will of big business or power hungry statists.
In 2007 a Republican offered the Health Care Choice Act and it went nowhere. It called for creating a nationwide marketplace with flat pricing across the entire country. Had it passed, it would have help you enormously.
http://johnshadegg.house.gov/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=80722
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:40:12 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Perhaps because 80% of Americans were and are perfectly happy with the healthcare we have?
Correct, the rest of us, including the ones no longer able to pay, can just lump it. I get the message, when the chips are down, the compassionate conservative is a myth.
I try to get something besides the partyline and I get hammered. That's very, very enlightening.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:45:38 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Eutychus, let me ask you this, in all sincerity....you actually believe that your costs will go DOWN if the government provides your healthcare?
They have ONLY gone up so far. What am I to think, that the republicans are going to finally do something, anything, to help people like me that finds themselves at the bottom of the food chain?
For what it's worth, our health insurance is a government employee plan. My last co-pay for a common medication for a 90 day supply was over $500!!!! Why? Because the generic version does not work and my doctored specified non-generic. Checking out her claims, I found citation after citation from people who backed up her claims for this particular class of drugs. The generics simply behave differently for some reason.
I had an operation several years ago and my out of pocket for the surgeon alone was over $2500. That did not include ANY of the hospital costs. So, I know the issue of costs is real and must be addressed.
BUT, I am NOT willing to go down a road from which there is NO return simply on the basis of 'hope' that the solution being promised will be better in the long run. These people do NOT have a great track record.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 5:47:52 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1538
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Perhaps because 80% of Americans were and are perfectly happy with the healthcare we have?
Correct, the rest of us, including the ones no longer able to pay, can just lump it. I get the message, when the chips are down, the compassionate conservative is a myth.
I try to get something besides the partyline and I get hammered. That's very, very enlightening.
Nice pity party but that is NOT the truth.
You have simply ignored my attempts to carry on a meaningful discussion of the issues. You want to talk issues... fine. You want to have a pity party that is not fine.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 6:01:59 PM
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gcsmithjr
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quote:
The fact is that Republicans HAVE tried to introduce sensible plans that do not steal our freedoms; but, would dramatically increase competition and lower costs.
Name one specific, sensible plan the Republicans actually tried to introduce.
The Republicans didn't do a thing to try to address this issue until the Democrats made it part of their agenda. Last time I checked, the Republicans controlled the U.S. House and Senate until November, 2006 but did NOTHING to address the health care situation. Why is it that, with a Republican President and control of both houses of congress the Republicans were unable to do anything to address this issue?
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 6:08:35 PM
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gcsmithjr
Posts: 532
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quote:
My wife is a nurse and assures me that we will see a LOT of doctors simply retire rather than have to operate under a government drivien healthcare system.
Sorry, but while that may be your wife's opinion, it's not backed up by the facts, or the opinions of most physicians.
The New England Journal of Medicine did an extensive research study to find out what physicians thought of the issue, and found the following:
Overall, a majority of physicians (62.9%) supported public and private options. Only 27.3% supported offering private options only. Respondents — across all demographic subgroups, specialties, practice locations, and practice types — showed majority support (>57.4%) for the inclusion of a public option. Primary care providers were the most likely to support a public option (65.2%); among the other specialty groups, the “other” physicians — those in fields that generally have less regular direct contact with patients, such as radiology, anesthesiology, and nuclear medicine — were the least likely to support a public option, though 57.4% did so. Physicians in every census region showed majority support for a public option, with percentages in favor ranging from 58.9% in the South to 69.7% in the Northeast. Practice owners were less likely than nonowners to support a public option (59.7% vs. 67.1%, P<0.001), but a majority still supported it. Finally, there was also majority support for a public option among AMA members (62.2%).
NEJM Survey
The contention that doctors will retire than operate under government driven healthcare is a myth that is not backed up by the facts.
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RE: House And Senate Buying Into Public Option... - 11/4/2009 7:28:20 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3869
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Why wasn't health care important when the republicans were in power?
I looked up Shadegg's bills. There were 3. His first two had widespread GOP support- the 2005 and 2007 versions and were fiercely resisted by the Dems. His latest version for 2009 he received support from 5 Republicans which is 1/4 of the support he received from the GOP in earlier attempts.
In short the Dems had no interest in supporting a GOP bill and likewise now that Health Care is a big Dem issue there seems to be no support for it from the GOP.
Interestingly enough to add to the OP: At least the British politicians are covered by and use the NHS.
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