Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chairmanship of the United Nations Security Council?
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Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chairmanship of the United Nations Security Council?
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| Yes. |
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Total Votes : 25
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(last vote on : 11/5/2009 12:36:52 AM)
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Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chairmans... - 10/30/2009 11:57:34 PM
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tsnody2001
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This thread is not about arguing politics. It is not about whether Democrats or Republicans are right or wrong. It is not about the Birth Certificate issue. Before the attention of this thread turns to Bush, Cheney, Gore, Clinton, Obama, etc., please let me be clear that it has nothing to do with politics, whatsoever. So please don't turn it into that. It is simply and strictly about whether the Constitution has been violated the way mentioned in the following question.
Has our President committed treason by accepting and sitting as Chairman of the UN Security Council? Why or why not? If not, then it doesn't matter. But if so, how should it be dealt with?
This is what the Constitution for the United States of America says:
quote:
Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8, of the Constitution for the United States of America:
"No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States; and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall without consent of Congress accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State."
The 13th Amendment of the Constitution for the United States of America:
"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them." LINK 1
LINK 2
LINK 3
According to Cornell University Law School's web site:
quote:
"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
If our President - or any other member of government, for that matter - has committed treason, how do we enforce the dictates of the Constitution? If treason has in fact been committed, then impeachment proceedings seem to be a right the person in question does not have. Am I right in this thinking? Correct me if I am wrong, please.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 12:37:26 AM
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kiwimac
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Accepting the chair of the Un security council is not accepting "...any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them...."
It is simply chairing a committee. Frankly I think those opposed to obama are really stretching here.
_____________________________
Instead of loving what you think is peace, love other men and women and love God above all else. Instead of hating all the people you think are warmongers, hate the appetites and disorders in your own soul which are the causes of war.
- Thomas Merton
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 12:50:16 AM
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tsnody2001
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I never claimed to be opposed to Obama. Not in this thread, anyway.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 1:12:28 AM
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essentialsaltes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
Has our President committed treason by accepting and sitting as Chairman of the UN Security Council? Why or why not?
No. The UN is not a King, Prince or Foreign State.
quote:
If our President - or any other member of government, for that matter - has committed treason, how do we enforce the dictates of the Constitution? If treason has in fact been committed, then impeachment proceedings seem to be a right the person in question does not have.
Why would impeachment not apply in this hypothetical case? It would seem that treason would qualify as a 'high crime,' and impeachment would be the way to deal with it.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 1:33:51 AM
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tsnody2001
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quote:
Why would impeachment not apply in this hypothetical case?
I don't know. That is why I have begun this thread. I am simply looking for an answer, either way.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 2:32:10 AM
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Sayen
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What would be treasonous about that? Wouldn't chairing that committee potentially strengthen the position of the United States? I'm asking beyond the language of the Constitution - where is the threat?
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 3:15:28 AM
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tsnody2001
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Well, my question is strictly regarding the Constitution. But to answer your question, no, I don't think it strengthens the position of the US. In my opinion, it takes our allegiance (or at least his) away from the Constitution, which was framed by our founding fathers - who fought, bled, and died for our freedoms - and turns it (allegiance) over to a body of peoples bent on world domination and the destruction of nations' sovereignty all over the world.
That is my opinion. I do not claim to be right. I could be wrong. I am not saying it is treasonous - I do not determine that (the Constitution does).
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 4:23:50 AM
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rockominal
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I have pointed out before that Barry Soetoro isn't a traitor because treason assumes that the perpetrator is an actual citizen of a country. I've heard Barry being called a "traitor" even before he got elected, and I disagree. I've never called him a traitor because that just validates the credentials he now assumes as President of the United States. Initially, I was extremely concrned with the high level security clearance this guy would have as President. A guy in a forum, who was in the U.S. submarine Navy told me that he would only be metered out information on a "need to know" basis. I won't argue with that and I don't really want to get into that either. If anything, I would relegate Barry Soetoro's actions to something like espionage if not downright espionage. Undermining the U.S. economy by haphazardly printing money is one example. Trying to usurp the powers and rights of individual States by forcing them to relinquish States' rights would be another example. So now we come to his action that you've addressed. Any rational person would think that, at the least, impeachment proceedings are and have been in order. This imported kenyan/indonesian socialist John Kerry version II only worse, U.N. pandering opportunistic fraud, is as has always been very well shielded. I seriously doubt that his actions are of his own accord. So I think espionage would best describe this situation.
Now, on the other hand, we have Nancy Pelosi. She indeed is an American Citizen from Baltimore. She can and should, therefore, be considered a traitor in regards to her blatant violation of the Logan Act in Syria. She is not an actress, as far as I know, and doesn't have the luxury of doing such things as her friends in Hollywood; Sean Penn, for example.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2007-08-01-penn-chavez_N.htm
I give Barry Soetoro the benefit of the doubt by saying that he was actually duped into that photo with Hugo Chavez and the anti-American book of his. There have been petitions calling for the impeachment of Pelosi, if there is such a thing as impeaching the Speaker of the House.
Others have simply called her act a felony.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 6:16:04 AM
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gcsmithjr
Posts: 532
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quote:
Has our President committed treason by accepting and sitting as Chairman of the UN Security Council? Why or why not? If not, then it doesn't matter. But if so, how should it be dealt with?
I think you're wrong on this one. You skipped over one important clause of the constitution - the one that defines what constitutes Treason.
Article III section 3 of the U.S. Constitution defines treason: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Serving as Chairman of the UN Security Council clearly doesn't consist of "levying War" against the United States or giving "Aid and Comfort" to our enemies, so there is no way it constitutes treason.
The charge also ignoring the structure of the Constitution. Article I, Section 9 (the one you referred to as the basis for this claim of Treason) is titled "Limits on Congress" and specifically refers to the Legislative branch, not the Executive branch of government and does not apply to the President. The powers and limitations on the President are outlined in Article II of the U.S. Constitution which contains no similar restriction to the one quoted as the basis for the assertion that he has committed Treason.
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 7:25:00 AM
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rlj
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I think the question is a worthy question for a topic.
He isn't breaking Constitution because international treaties that have been signed and ratified trump the Constitution. Article Six states:
quote:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The easiest and most sure way for example to eliminate private gun ownership would be for the US to sign an international treaty banning private ownership of firearms. The easiest way to eliminate religious freedom would be for the US to sign an international treaty saying something that only religions which tolerate everyone and don't recognize moral wrongs (ie sin) will be tolerated would be a legal way to end christianity, etc.
So while I do not see chairmanship of the UN security council as a title of nobility, it really doesn't matter. If the Chairmanship bestowed the title of "Supreme Ruler of the World, Potentate of all Faiths, and Despot to All That is Bad" it would still be Constitutional because of past treaties we have signed.
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 8:36:45 AM
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gcsmithjr
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quote:
The easiest and most sure way for example to eliminate private gun ownership would be for the US to sign an international treaty banning private ownership of firearms. The easiest way to eliminate religious freedom would be for the US to sign an international treaty saying something that only religions which tolerate everyone and don't recognize moral wrongs (ie sin) will be tolerated would be a legal way to end christianity, etc.
RLJ-
You're misreading that passage.
quote:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The passage doesn't say that treaties are the supreme law of the land. It says that the Constitution, the Laws of the U.S. and Treaties constitute the law of the land and and they supersede State laws and constitutions.
Treaties definitely do not supersede the other portions of the Constitution (which clearly protects private ownership of firearms and religious freedom).
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 9:13:53 AM
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GroupW
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Rlj has one point - to the extent that congress has approved UN participation, the point is moot.
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"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 9:46:24 AM
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buckifn
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Based on my understanding of the Constitution I would have to answer No, it isn't treason.
If the question were "Is it a good thing for our country?"; I would also have to say, No.
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 11:19:13 AM
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SteveSund
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RLJ is incorrect when he suggests that a treaty can trump the US Constitution. Look at this part of Art. VI:
quote:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
A treaty must still conform to the Constitution. If it does not, it is null and void. Alexander Hamilton said:
quote:
The only constitutional exception to the power of making treaties is, that it shall not change the Constitution.... On natural principles, a treaty, which should manifestly betray or sacrifice primary interests of the state, would be null.
Chief Justice Story said this:
quote:
[T]hough the power is thus general and unrestricted, it is not to be so construed as to destroy the fundamental laws of the state. A power given by the Constitution cannot be construed to authorize a destruction of other powers given in the same instrument.... A treaty to change the organization of the Government, or to annihilate its sovereignty, to overturn its republican form, or to deprive it of its constitutional powers, would be void; because it would destroy what it was designed merely to fulfill, the will of the people.
Caselaw also agrees:
From Amaya v. Standard Oil & Gas Co.:
quote:
the treaty-making power does not extend ‘So far as to authorize what the constitution forbids. ;
and Reid v. Covert:
quote:
no agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on Congress, or on any other branch of Government, which is free from the restraints of the Constitution.
< Message edited by SteveSund -- 10/31/2009 11:26:32 AM >
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 1:31:49 PM
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rlj
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I've been checking that out. I was always told and under the impression that what I said was correct. It was often years ago listening to arguments against things such as the Convention on the Rights of the Child that I most clearly remember my argument being made.
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Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 2:38:05 PM
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rockominal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: parkerbrother
Who is Barry Soetoro and what does he have to do with this thread?
He is the current President of the United States. I'm not suprised alot of people don't know that any more than they know that Joe Biden is the current vice President. Always glad to help. 
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 3:18:23 PM
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tsnody2001
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quote:
I think you're wrong on this one. You skipped over one important clause of the constitution - the one that defines what constitutes Treason
What am I wrong about? I made no accusations. I simply asked a question to be discussed.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 10/31/2009 4:22:19 PM
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gcsmithjr
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quote:
What am I wrong about? I made no accusations. I simply asked a question to be discussed.
Your OP said "Am I right in this thinking? Correct me if I am wrong, please."
You quoted a section of the U.S. Constitution that does not apply to the President so I pointed out that your thinking is incorrect, that's all I meant.
< Message edited by gcsmithjr -- 11/1/2009 5:55:22 AM >
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 11/1/2009 12:18:55 AM
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parkerbrother
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: parkerbrother
Who is Barry Soetoro and what does he have to do with this thread?
He is the current President of the United States. I'm not suprised alot of people don't know that any more than they know that Joe Biden is the current vice President. Always glad to help.
Sorry to inform you that Barack Obama is the current president of the US. You really need to bone up on your civics (and your spelling).
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 11/1/2009 7:23:32 AM
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leftwing
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kiwimac
Accepting the chair of the Un security council is not accepting "...any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them...."
It is simply chairing a committee. Frankly I think those opposed to obama are really stretching here.
You are absolutely wrong.
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 11/1/2009 7:25:12 AM
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leftwing
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quote:
ORIGINAL: parkerbrother
quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: parkerbrother
Who is Barry Soetoro and what does he have to do with this thread?
He is the current President of the United States. I'm not suprised alot of people don't know that any more than they know that Joe Biden is the current vice President. Always glad to help.
Sorry to inform you that Barack Obama is the current president of the US. You really need to bone up on your civics (and your spelling).
Barry Soetoro is an alias Mr. Obama used. Perhaps you should get up to speed on current events.
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 11/2/2009 8:22:01 PM
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tacitus
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Not it's not -- it was a name that was used while he was living with this adoptive father. He's been using his birth name "Obama" since he was in high school. The fact that certain haters on this board use his incorrect name is simply to get a rise out of those who do not share their hatred and to annoy them and stir things up -- nothing more.
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 11/2/2009 8:44:05 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 324
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Thanks everyone for your posts and input. The reason I started this thread is because I read one of the articles linked in the OP. While I didn't necessarily agree that Obama has committed treason, I did think that it would be big news (and very important), if it were true. So I simply wanted to get some input. I did not , myself, seek to define what treason is, but only wanted to see what the Constitution had to say about this topic, and what the Constitution demands be done to someone who has been found to commit treason.
I guess it all comes down to "What exactly is the UN?"
Anyway, I have enjoyed reading your posts, everyone. Please feel free to continue discussing and posting regarding this topic. Thank you all.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 11/3/2009 9:36:40 AM
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Lapidoth
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Why would a real American want to chair an organization that
is opposed to the United States?
At the least it is a conflict of interest, and at worst possibly treason.
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http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Has Obama committed open treason by accepting chair... - 11/3/2009 9:53:29 AM
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GroupW
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Because you should keep your friends close, and your enemies closer?
That's the cynic's view of the UN.
My view is a bit broader - there are certainly those within the UN opposed to us. That's to be expected. If you don't have a forum to air those grievances and cooperate with other countries on the issues where there IS agreement, then every country is out there going it alone.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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