Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners out there?
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Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners out th... - 5/12/2009 6:53:08 PM
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richartrod
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Is there anyone out there like me who used to listen to Family Radio, but switched it off because it has turned into a cult under the bizarre teaching of its leader Harold Camping?
As a teenager in the 1980's I used to listen to Family Radio's local station in Los Angeles, KFRN, because it played a lot of the traditional hymns I heard at my late aunt's Spanish-speaking Nazarene church in East L.A. Back then it was a source of comfort and inspiration with nationally syndicated shows such as "Back to the Bible", its youth-oriented sister program "Teen Quest", "Science, Scripture and Salvation", and especially "Unshackled" from the Pacific Garden Mission of Chicago. It also allowed local churches to air 5-minute devotionals and Bible studies free of charge. It was a quiet, low-key alternative to the glamor and glitz of Christian television of that time.
Sadly, the Family Radio of my youth is no more. For whatever reason, Harold Camping has gone from orthodoxy to rank heresy with his failed prediction that the world would end in 1994, that God is no longer working in the church, that true Christians should "flee the church" and form leaderless fellowships around his radio teachings, and that ordinances such as Baptism and the Lord's Supper are no longer to be practiced. Lately, he has now been teaching that the world will end on May 11, 2011; that rather than face eternity in hell, all nonbelievers will be "annailated" or cease to exist, and that Jesus didn't really die for our sins on the cross.
Simply put, Family Radio is now a cult, and Mr. Camping has made it so because of his false, heretical teaching. He has no accountability to others and ministries have been forced to edit their messages to fit his peculiar theology, hence their exodus from what used to be a model radio ministry. The only reason he has a following at all is because he owns a network of radio stations that used to be biblical until he theologically fell over the cliff. His teachings are documented at the Christian Research Institute at the following link:
http://www.equip.org/articles/harold-camping
In 2006 I discovered a biblical alternative called Redeemer Broadcasting out of upstate New York, which can be heard online at www.redeemerbroadcasting.org. Many of the old programs that used to air on Family Radio are now on Redeemer, and I have become enamored with its mix of traditional hymns and softer contemporary worship.
Are there any Crosswalkers out there who used to follow Harold Camping's false teaching, but later realized it for what it was, repented, and returned to sound biblical teaching? Or has anyone followed his so called "depart out" teaching and left the organized church, only to return to it in repentance?
I once heard on "The Bible Answer Man" a former Family Radio listener who did leave the church for a so-called "believers' fellowship" as Camping advocates, but left it because the members argued and bickered all the time, were judgmental, disagreed over what Camping really meant on a certain teaching, and was lost in chaos. He eventually returned to the church and was actually thinking of filing a lawsuit against Camping for the pain and suffering he went through.
All I read and hear about is the clearly cultic teaching of today's Family Radio. But what about those who have been moved by God the Holy Spirit that something just wasn't right and they rightfully abandoned a sinking ship?
I would like to hear from you.
Rich Rodriguez
West Covina, CA
(2 Cor 1:3-5)
Website: www.pandapolis.com
My church's website: www.immanuelfirst.org
(Immanuel First Lutheran Church, West Covina, CA)
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/13/2009 12:30:24 AM
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Gloryandgrace
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I listened to KFRN in LA too during the late 70's and early 80's I enjoyed family radio.
My fave was the gospel mission testimonies. I jettisoned the radio show after Harold camping
turned false.
I would still listen if it were operated in orthodoxy...
I was never a follower of Camping, but I sure listened to the bible reading and the mission and some
sermons
John
_____________________________
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/13/2009 3:05:14 PM
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richartrod
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John,
Thanks for your reply.
As I wrote in the opening post, a good orthodox alternative is Redeemer Broadcasting out of upstate New York at www.redeemerbroadcasting.org. The flagship station, WFSO of Olivebridge, NY, originally signed on the air as a Family Radio affiliate but also jettisoned the network after it got too weird.
They started their own small network, Redeemer, to remain "faithful to the Scriptures and supporting the church" (its slogan) and has been slowly gaining new listeners in the Northeast. The format is similar to what KFRN used to be, plus newer teachers such as R.C. Sproul, John McArthur, Joni Earackson Tada, Ravi Zacharias and Chuck Bentley. I think you might like it.
They stream online 24 hours a day and, as you can probably tell, I like it.
Rich
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/13/2009 5:10:02 PM
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RoderickSpode
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Hi Rich!
I'm not a former listener, but rather a current listener at times. Not because I believe his theology, but because of the music, the scripture readings, and I also appreciate the prayer segment during the week days. I only listen to it while I'm driving. My usual Christian on-line station is FBC out of Dunn, North Carolina. It's the station for a conservative Bible college run by H.T. Spence. The music is the best I've heard in terms of my taste. Sacred traditional music leaning more towards a classical music sound. While driving, I switch back and forth from Family Radio to a Christian station that broadcasts the likes of Hank Hanegraff (sp??), Chuck Swindoll, John MacArthur, etc. But unlike FR, this station plays commercials, and has programming I don't care for like the guy who pushes buying gold, and a few others. I thought at first you may have been an employee of Family Radio because they mention a name on the station from similar to yours from time to time. But, I think it's Rich Ramirez.
One thing I find interesting, is that some of the people on the Family Radio broadcast seem perfectly....orthodox I guess could be a term I'll use. I have a hard time believing his whole staff has left the church, although I know people have left his employ possibly because of being pressured to leave the church. I have a hard time believing they all buy into the 2011 prediction just because Harold teaches it. During the day time, they will conduct interviews with Family Radio listeners from certain FR events. The interviewees rarely say anything about leaving the church, or being raptured in 2011. They usually highly praise Mr. Camping, but they seem to avoid these issues. And so do the people who conduct the interviews. I remember a couple who was interviewed, who alluded to looking into the possibility of what Harold says about churches being true, because the husband of the couple noticed some of the negative trends Harold talks about regarding churches to be true. However, according to Harold, this couple would not be saved, or may only potentially become saved based upon their ultimate decision. He has stated that anyone who is even unsure about the situation of the church, is in danger. The interviewers never questioned this couple on their stance. I have a hard time believing that the doctor who gives a brief discussion on physical health, and associates himself with FR believes everything HC says. The person who does the prayer request segment makes prayers he probably shouldn't bother to make if we only have 2 years left before the rapture.
My personal thought is that there are those who remain on the staff who don't believe his doctrine, and are probably still going to church.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/13/2009 5:44:20 PM
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richartrod
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ObviousLee,
Thanks for your post. You clearly have a gift of discernment in terms of what you choose to listen to on Family Radio.
I used to listen to KFRN only at specific times on the weekends, primarily the music segments, but Mr. Camping's "Here's Something to Think About" segments where they air clips of his bizarre teaching from the "Open Forum" are increasingly interspersed throughout the entire program schedule, and I have tired of having to mute the radio every hour or so until it's over. So I stopped listening to FR altogether.
I do not doubt that there are some FR employees in Oakland who think Mr. Camping is clearly wrong on his current teaching, and may still be working there because either they need a job in this current economy or are hoping for a return to orthodoxy after he retires or passes away. But some FR employees, such as former "Nightwatch" host Jerry Edinger and School of the Bible director Dr. Gabriel Otero, quit the ministry because they could no longer in good conscience work at a place that was freefalling into heresy by mandate from Mr. Camping itself.
And yes, there is a current FR employee named Rich Ramirez, who is not the same person as convicted California mass murderer Richard Ramirez (hence shortening the name to "Rich"). I have been accidentally called by the latter Ramirez for years, and it still happens occasionally. It used to aggravate me, but now I just laugh it off. 
Pray for the FR ministry and for Mr. Camping, that they may repent of their wrong teaching and like the Prodigal Son return to the fold with open arms.
Rich Rodriguez
(not Ramirez)
West Covina, CA
2 Cor 1:3-5
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/13/2009 6:26:02 PM
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JKaplan
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I listen occasionally to the open forum show. It's the most interesting thing on the radio at 2 in the morning. Although, I don't agree with Harold on most of his points.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/14/2009 11:31:46 AM
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RoderickSpode
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quote:
ORIGINAL: richartrod
I do not doubt that there are some FR employees in Oakland who think Mr. Camping is clearly wrong on his current teaching, and may still be working there because either they need a job in this current economy or are hoping for a return to orthodoxy after he retires or passes away. But some FR employees, such as former "Nightwatch" host Jerry Edinger and School of the Bible director Dr. Gabriel Otero, quit the ministry because they could no longer in good conscience work at a place that was freefalling into heresy by mandate from Mr. Camping itself.
Rich Rodriguez
(not Ramirez)
West Covina, CA
2 Cor 1:3-5
I actually live in the Bay Area, and knew someone I went to church with who worked for FR. The church I attended was an Interdenominational church, which was basically a Pentacostal church. And of course, Mr. Camping has always been against Pentacostalism. So it would appear that strict hiring policies were never really in place. The interesting thing about Dr. Otero, is it seemed that he left FR after the 'depart from church' theology came into being, and then briefly came back. Either that or they were still broadcasting his messages any way for awhile.
It seems Mr. Camping is in somewhat of a precarious position. The outside of FR recorded messages, as he stated, have to have been preached outside of a church building. Not necessarily, as I understand it, the preacher's position on churches. Of course, according to Mr. Camping, this is a relatively new revelation from God, so if the message was before the revelation was revealed, then perhaps it's okay. Then there's the problem as we had stated, of what the staff truly believes. If they don't believe his teachings, then according to him, they are not genuine brothers and sisters. So basically, he would be working with non-Christians. Or, the current staff literally must believe everything he says to be revelations from God. After all, he does endorse people to check out what he's saying for themselves. Or, they are not really telling him what they truly believe.
Anyways, thanks for the interesting thread. And I agree, we should pray for Mr. Camping, his staff, and those who listen to his programming.
_____________________________
If Solomon came back to Earth today, he would be impressed with the internet for about a minute. Then he would tell us how to download faster.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/14/2009 5:42:36 PM
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earthless
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For some reason I can't seem to find the thread we had on him being a false prophet and false teacher.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/15/2009 2:19:06 PM
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Heavendweller
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Earthless,
There are quite a few threads that I can no longer find. Not sure why.  As to HC, I've always had questions about him. But now, it is obvious he has gone off the deep end.
Heavendweller
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See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. I John 3:1
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/17/2009 3:14:43 PM
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richartrod
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ObviousLee,
Around 2004 Family Radio was still playing Dr. Otero's old teachings as part of their daily "From the (Pastor's) Study" segments, even though he had long left the ministry. Portions referring to the church were edited out, resulting in unusually short messages of one minute or less followed by four minutes of music, or one train of thought suddenly jumping to another. The old recordings are FR property, I believe, and can air without Dr. Otero's consent.
Rich
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/20/2009 2:00:15 PM
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Jeffriesw
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From: Central Florida
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quote:
ORIGINAL: richartrod
In 2006 I discovered a biblical alternative called Redeemer Broadcasting out of upstate New York, which can be heard online at www.redeemerbroadcasting.org. Many of the old programs that used to air on Family Radio are now on Redeemer, and I have become enamored with its mix of traditional hymns and softer contemporary worship.
u.
Rich Rodriguez
West Covina, CA
(2 Cor 1:3-5)
Website: www.pandapolis.com
My church's website: www.immanuelfirst.org
(Immanuel First Lutheran Church, West Covina, CA)
I had never heard of Redeemer Broadcasting before, Looks like good programming.
Thanks for the link, Rich!
_____________________________
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him.
Proverbs 26:4
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/21/2009 10:28:32 PM
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anicecupofcoffee
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Thanks for the look-back on the past. I too used to listen to Family Radio (WFME) out of New Jersey for many years.
Unshackled was one of my favorites. You can still hear the old Unshackled programs from the Pacific Garden Mission site. I'm glad they preserved thses broadcasts! Unshackled
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James 1:18
God chose to give us new birth through the message of truth. He wanted us to be the first and best of everything he created.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/22/2009 1:42:20 AM
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Ross.Lang
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Once, at a conference of reformed evangelicals, a speaker asked "If you are a liberal theologian, and reject the inerrancy and value of every word from scripture, all kinds of aweful things can happen to you and through you. But if you accept the inerrancy and value of every jot and tittle, what's the worst that could happen?"
To which I may now reply, "This:"
"If you take the number of fish Peter hauled in at Jesus command, divide it by the number of heads of the beast from the sea in Revelation, and then add the number of hairs on Jacob's big toe, you get the exact date for the end of the Church age!"
I spent years debating the followers of this crazy heretic. My DW's mom still donates to them, old fondness from a bygone orthodoxy. It's glorified numerology mixed with a layman's understanding of scripture. Fatal combo.
-Ross
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/23/2009 1:05:52 PM
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humbleinspirit
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If I recall, Harold Camping was always legalistic. Then he said that we should only go by the King James Bible, why? Because it was the only official Bible and no one needed to study the original Greek, Hebrew or Arabic at all. I was like woah, ok! See, it was his reasoning, not whether it was the correct version or not.
Then there was the failed Jesus was coming back in 1994 prophesy that failed. I wonder what made him predict that to start with?
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/23/2009 6:48:18 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Then there was the failed Jesus was coming back in 1994 prophesy that failed. I wonder what made him predict that to start with?
Could only be one of two things: his own delusions and ignorance or the demonic realm.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/23/2009 11:28:23 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
Then there was the failed Jesus was coming back in 1994 prophesy that failed. I wonder what made him predict that to start with?
He has a bizarre number system.  If I recall correctly the current prophecy is 2011. How short are the memories of his followers?
But they are following only the true Christians and the true church, of course Harold Camping is correct!
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/26/2009 6:55:59 PM
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richartrod
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A lot of good posts on this thread lately. If Mr. Camping really does advocate only the King James Version of the Bible because it is the only "official" Bible (presumably it being known as the "Authorized Version" in its original imprint back in the 1600's), then that leaves out a lot of people who do not understand Shakespearean English, that is, most of the planet.
I personally use the New King James and New Living Translation--the NKJV for its timeless poetry and prose, and the NLT for its down-to-earth contemporary language. All languages, including English, are constantly evolving, and the Lord inspires translators in each generation to share His Word, The Bible, in the heart language of the people. If only the King James version really is the only official Bible, then my fellow believers who use the Spanish Reina-Valera, Chinese, or Vietnamese Bibles are lost and on their way to hell because they don't understand King James English.
Lately I have been wondering what would happen to Family Radio after Camping passes away. He will turn 88 this year, and the ministry is in its 50th anniversary year. If FR is as disarrayed as I am persuaded to believe from reading these posts, then its post-Camping era may see it either collapse and its assets liquidated to other broadcasters, or it will reorganize as a brand new, hopefully biblically-centered and church-supporting ministry with a new name. Thanks to Camping the FR name now has a lot of baggage attached to it.
My concern is for those still listening to Family Radio and following Mr. Camping. Like after the death of Herbert W. Armstrong, they might fracture into competing splinter groups, each claiming they have received Camping's prophetic mantle and are the true Christian church, all the while becoming all-out cults.
Keep sharing.
Rich Rodriguez
2 Cor 1:3-5
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/28/2009 9:22:30 AM
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alfalfahay
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I think I first used to listen to FR by shortwave back in the '60's or '70's.
I looked at the current FR broadcast schedules and they seem still to have a couple programs I used to like in the past:
1. "Walk with the King" by Dr. Robert A. Cook
2. "Radio Reading Circle"
Dr. Cook died in 1991 but a website still has his teaching materials: http://www.walkwiththeking.org/resources.html
Dr. Cook was head of the King's College from 1960 to 1985.
The King's College is now located in the Empire State Building in NYC: http://www.tkc.edu/abouttkc/history.html
I also used to like the hymns and bible reading on FR.
On short wave they used to read the bible out loud very very slowly for people who wished to learn English, I think.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 5/31/2009 12:01:26 AM
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humbleinspirit
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Family Radio was created from business men, also, Mr. Camping believes that the KJV is the only official Bible because it is written in English, his words, not mine.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 6/1/2009 6:59:53 PM
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richartrod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Family Radio was created from business men, also, Mr. Camping believes that the KJV is the only official Bible because it is written in English, his words, not mine.
If the KJV is the only official Bible, then where does that leave believers who speak other languages, including those who follow his teachings via Family Radio's non-English shortwave broadcasts around the world? As I wrote in an earlier post, by Camping's faulty logic, they either are not saved or at a disadvantage because they do not understand King James (Shakespearean) English.
I do not believe FR's founding as a nonprofit ministry by businessmen has any bearing on where it is today. It was very traditional and orthodox in its music and programming until Camping went off the deep end in his 1994/end of church age/2011/annilation heresies. And I also believe all this may be rooted in his personal prejudice of any kind of church that doesn't mimic the traditional church template he was once part of... a church he is ironically working so hard to dismantle.
Rich
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 6/1/2009 9:41:12 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: richartrod
If the KJV is the only official Bible, then where does that leave believers who speak other languages,
Rich
Not much of a question when one sees Harold's racist and hateful teachings (serpent seed, British Israelism, etc..).
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